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Jody Serrano (9 September 2022). "How Wikipedia's 'Deaditors' Sprang Into Action on Queen Elizabeth II's Page After Her Death". Gizmodo. And then there was Charles, the Queen's son who has waited to become King for what seems like an eternity. "What name would he take as King?" the Wikipedia editors wondered. They changed his name in the Queen's article—from "Charles, Princes of Wales" to "Charles III" to "Charles, King of the United Kingdom"—a number of times. (Charles settled on "Charles III.")
Annie Rauwerda (9 September 2022). "Who the hell updated Queen Elizabeth II's Wikipedia page so quickly?". Input. Over on the article for now-King Charles III, there was a frenzy of title changes as editors waited for his regnal name to be announced. Charles' article changed titles five times while people waited for his official regnal name.
This article has been viewed enough times in a single year to make it into the Top 50 Report annual list. This happened in 2018, 2020, 2021, 2022, and 2023.
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I remain of the view that the lead section is... terrible. The wonder that it ever passed GAN in this state -- without detracting from the sterling efforts editors made considerably improving it in other respects, all kudos to those -- merely increases over time as his reign lengthens, and the "reign" paragraph fails to reflect that.
Specifically, p1 and p4 are absurdly undersized and uninformative, while p2 and p3 are long and trivia-packed. We learn that he spent six months in an Australian school six years ago, but not that he's currently head of state of that country. Nothing at all is said therein about his ongoing break from public duties on health grounds. We should significantly expand the former, and somewhat trim the latter. Or am I a lone voice in the wilderness on that? 109.255.211.6 (talk) 03:46, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Charles became king upon his mother's death in 2022. At the age of 73 he was the oldest person to accede to the British throne, after having been the longest-serving heir apparent and Prince of Wales in British history. Significant events in his reign have included his coronation in 2023, as well as his diagnosis of cancer in 2024, the latter of which temporarily suspended planned public engagements.
That's all we could really have summarising the current body, though. Elizabeth's article has a summary of what she reigned through. Obviously, Charles's reign is about 45 times shorter than hers, but some things have happened: only one that sticks out to me is the rapid rise of AI, but that's not really related to Charles (except for this speech at the AI Safety Summit, which we might mention). Any ideas? Tim O'Doherty (talk) 16:27, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Much better! That certainly corrects the most glaring of the omissions, so I'm happy not to let "doesn't go far enough" be the enemy of "bank!" 109.255.211.6 (talk) 20:43, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Here's what a friendly (?) robot suggests for his reign in a para, based on our own section:-
Charles III ascended to the British throne following the death of his mother on September 8, 2022, becoming the oldest person to do so at the age of 73. His accession marked the end of his record-breaking 59-year tenure as the longest-serving British heir apparent. In his inaugural speech, Charles paid homage to his mother and announced the appointment of his elder son, William, as the Prince of Wales. The Accession Council publicly proclaimed him as king the next day, with the ceremony televised for the first time, attended by Queen Camilla, Prince William, and various political figures. His coronation, held at Westminster Abbey on May 6, 2023, under the code name Operation Golden Orb, was a significant event marked by its adherence to Church of England rites. During his reign, Charles and Camilla engaged in multiple state visits and received dignitaries, including hosting South African President Cyril Ramaphosa and undertaking state visits to Germany and France. However, his reign was not without health challenges, as he underwent a corrective procedure for benign prostate enlargement in January 2024, revealing the discovery of cancer during treatment, albeit not prostate cancer. Despite health setbacks, Charles remained committed to fulfilling his constitutional duties, with Camilla deputizing for him during his recovery period at various public engagements, underscoring the resilience of the monarchy under his reign.
Maybe a little too much detail, but definitely a case where the artificial neurons have outdone the alleged wisdom of crowds... 109.255.211.6 (talk) 21:05, 26 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I was especially impressed that when re-prompted with "shorter summary?" and then "shorter still please?" it obliged similarly convincingly. Can't write its own though, as it's convinced it's still 2022. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 21:00, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, yes 2022! Those were the days. Charles was still in short trousers, was still at school with Harry... and still had that pet spider! Martinevans123 (talk) 21:24, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm now slightly more concerned with your Knowledge Base than I was about OpenAI's! 109.255.211.6 (talk) 22:47, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Anyone have any additional thoughts on this? I still think these are badly under-summarising (and conversely that p2 and p3 really need a trim). Here's another AI summary of the "reign" section... Charles III became king of the United Kingdom upon the death of his mother, Queen Elizabeth II, in September 2022, marking the end of his record-breaking tenure as the longest-serving heir apparent. His accession was followed by a televised proclamation ceremony and his coronation at Westminster Abbey in May 2023. Throughout his reign, Charles and Queen Camilla engaged in state visits and received dignitaries, showcasing the monarchy's diplomatic role. However, health challenges arose in early 2024 when Charles underwent a procedure for benign prostate enlargement, revealing the presence of non-prostate cancer. Despite this setback, Charles remained committed to his duties, with Queen Camilla deputizing for him at public events during his recovery. Thoughts? 109.255.211.6 (talk) 12:53, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Clarify. Which bits are you recommending be added or deleted? GoodDay (talk) 20:37, 18 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Well, we have a moving target now. We can at least add that he's performing "light public duties" again. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 21:43, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I read "Significant events in his reign have included his coronation in 2023, and his cancer diagnosis the following year, the latter of which temporarily suspended planned public engagements." I suggest to (factually) say hat he and his wife were crowned, then what he did, then that he was diagnosed and not participating in public functions. To claim that the two "significant events" were two where he was passive seems unfair ;) --Gerda Arendt (talk) 06:09, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
As you can see from the above, ChatGPT somewhat agrees with you too! As indeed do I. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 16:48, 28 March 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Willem-Alexander (Dutch: [ˈʋɪləm aːlɛkˈsɑndər]; Willem-Alexander Claus George Ferdinand; born 27 April 1967) is King of the Netherlands.
Not "Willem-Alexander (Dutch: [ˈʋɪləm aːlɛkˈsɑndər]; Willem-Alexander Claus George Ferdinand; born 27 April 1967) is King of the Kingdom of the Netherlands."
Mohammed VI (Arabic: محمد السادس, romanized: Muḥammad as-sādis; born 21 August 1963) is King of Morocco.
Not "Mohammed VI (Arabic: محمد السادس, romanized: Muḥammad as-sādis; born 21 August 1963) is King of the Kingdom of Morocco."
Frederik X (Frederik André Henrik Christian; born 26 May 1968) is King of Denmark.
Not "Frederik X (Frederik André Henrik Christian; born 26 May 1968) is King of the Kingdom of Denmark."
Vajiralongkorn (born 28 July 1952) is King of Thailand.
Not "Vajiralongkorn (born 28 July 1952) is King of the Kingdom of Thailand."
Carl XVI Gustaf (Carl Gustaf Folke Hubertus; born 30 April 1946) is King of Sweden.
Not "Carl XVI Gustaf (Carl Gustaf Folke Hubertus; born 30 April 1946) is King of the Kingdom of Sweden."
Abdullah II bin Al-Hussein (Arabic: عبدالله الثاني بن الحسين, romanized: ʿAbd Allāh aṯ-ṯānī ibn al-Ḥusayn; born 30 January 1962) is King of Jordan
Not "Abdullah II bin Al-Hussein (Arabic: عبدالله الثاني بن الحسين, romanized: ʿAbd Allāh aṯ-ṯānī ibn al-Ḥusayn; born 30 January 1962) is King of the Hashemite Kingdom of Jordan"
Harald V (Norwegian: Harald den femte, Norwegian pronunciation: [ˈhɑ̂rːɑɫ dɛn ˈfɛ̂mtə]; born 21 February 1937) is King of Norway.
Not "Harald V (Norwegian: Harald den femte, Norwegian pronunciation: [ˈhɑ̂rːɑɫ dɛn ˈfɛ̂mtə]; born 21 February 1937) is King of the Kingdom of Norway."
Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud (Arabic: سلمان بن عبد العزیز آل سعود, romanized: Salmān bin ʿAbd al-ʿAzīz Āl Su‘ūd; born 31 December 1935) is King of Saudi Arabia
Not "Salman bin Abdulaziz Al Saud (Arabic: سلمان بن عبد العزیز آل سعود, romanized: Salmān bin ʿAbd al-ʿAzīz Āl Su‘ūd; born 31 December 1935) is King of the Kingdom of Saudi Arabia"
But this article says:
Charles III (Charles Philip Arthur George; born 14 November 1948) is King of the United Kingdom and the 14 other Commonwealth realms.
I would write it like this:
Charles III (Charles Philip Arthur George; born 14 November 1948) is King of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of the 14 other Commonwealth realms.
To say that someone is "King of the Kingdom of Somewhere" rather than just that he is "King of Somewhere" is redundant. Michael Hardy (talk) 17:58, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
His official title is "King of the United Kingdom", not "King of Great Britain and Northern Ireland". ‑‑Neveselbert (talk·contribs·email) 18:26, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Plus, the name doesn’t change with the monarch’s gender, so his mom was “Queen of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland”. We use the name of the kingdom. The name is set by the Union Act 1800, as amended by the Parliamentary and Royal Titles Act 1927. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 19:12, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
His Majesty Charles the Third, by the Grace of God, of the United Kingdom of Great Britain and Northern Ireland and of His other Realms and Territories King, Head of the Commonwealth, Defender of the Faith
where the relevant words are […] of the United Kingdom […] King […]. This wasn't invented by Wikipedia, it is his official British appellation. We cannot delete the words "United Kingdom" from this official style, not even on a pretext of redundancy. "King of the United Kingdom" merely reorders the parts most relevant about his function in the UK. I would add that IMHO the word "United" is important here, and that it applies to "Kingdom", another reason not to remove the latter. — Tonymec (talk) 23:28, 24 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The short form of the UK's name is "United Kingdom". That part's really not optional. other than by saying "Britain", which is an imprecise and informal usage not available to us here. We don't have to -- and shouldn't, and don't -- follow the "official style" of C3, nor the long form of the name of the country. But nor should we be making up our own variations. If you find "King of the United Kingdom" infelicitous and redundant-sounding, a more feasible route might (good luck!) be to reword it as "monarch" or "head of state" in some manner rather than using his title directly. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 06:35, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Stay with the status quo, "King of the United Kingdom". GoodDay (talk) 20:30, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@ the OP: just to reiterate the comments of others, an analogy is "President of the United States" v. "President of America". DeCausa (talk) 21:46, 25 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We never would have had this problem with Elizabeth II. CMD (talk) 02:09, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don't even understand the analogy here. If we are in the business of comparing articles, DeCausa's example is the most relevant. One calls Joe Biden president of the United States (not president of America), and–to add my own–one similarly calls Mohamed bin Zayed Al Nahyan president of the United Arab Emirates (not president of the Emirates). US, UK, and UAE are quite unique in terms of their names. As an encyclopedia we should aim for common usage and accuracy. And we should not be inventing terms. Keivan.fTalk 23:37, 26 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Essentially the OP is suggesting that King (or indeed "king", there's another wrinkle) of <country with "Kingdom" in its long-form name> sounds clumsy and redundant. King of the Kingdom, obvs! But the UK's longform and shortform name contain "Kingdom", so that's not really avoidable. Or at least, not in the way suggested. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 04:42, 27 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Last April, I added that the King's approval rating was about 55 per cent. One year later, they now show it at 58 per cent. I think it should be updated.
Seems fair enough. Perhaps including both is reasonable, albeit one can't keep adding them indefinitely. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 08:28, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Semi-protected edit request on 30 April 2024[edit]
The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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I kindly suggest that the attached photo be added to the King's media and public perception section. The image depicts him opening the Sandton Hilton in South Africa with CEO Peter George, approximately two months after Princess Diana died. Prince Harry was also present at this event, but is not pictured.
If you took the photograph, it would be a good idea if you could add details, at the upload page, of exactly when it was taken. And clarify which one is Peter George. Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 17:14, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Peter George is directly to King Charles' left, who is obviously in the middle. I did not take the photograph however I do own all rights to it and decided to upload it to Wikimedia Commons to preserve the history. I'm still trying myself to find the exact date, however I have deduced that it was taken on or in the days leading up to 1 November 1997. Szeremeta (talk) 18:30, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
If you did not take the photograph yourself, you may have to demonstrate at Commons that you "own all rights to it." You have currently stated it is "own work". Thanks. Martinevans123 (talk) 18:55, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
My apologies. I should've been more concise. How would I demonstrate that I own all rights to it? Szeremeta (talk) 19:02, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I'm really not sure. In the past I have struggled, at Commons, to establish rights for a third party photographer. I think you will have to enquire over there, sorry. Martinevans123 (talk) 19:06, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
Ah, thanks anyway. I really appreciate it :D Szeremeta (talk) 19:38, 30 April 2024 (UTC)[reply]
What is the significance of this photo that warrants inclusion in the article? Wikimedia Commons has a category page on Charles with 16 sub-categories, each with pix. So Charles snipped a ribbon? He does that sort of thing a lot. What makes this picture stand out for inclusion? Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 02:29, 1 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
My change to include "Head of the Commonwealth" as a separate section in the infobox was reverted. I think this is a good change as it seems strange for being head of the Commonwealth to be the first thing mentioned in the infobox. It also seems to go against the point of the title field, which is to display the "Principal substantive title(s) in use". I don't think being head of the Commonwealth is the principal title of Charles III.
I also think including it separately may be worth it for Charles and not the other monarchs, as the independence of the role is much greater. I don't think there was any doubt Elizabeth II would be Head of the Commonwealth, but there was such a discussion and a decision at CHOGM 2018 to choose Charles.
If a separate reign section isn't supported, I would still support removing Head of the Commonwealth from the title field and moving it to a separate footnote next to Commonwealth realms, like "King of the United Kingdom and other Commonwealth realm, and Head of the Commonwealth(footnote=Independently chosen at CHOGM 2018) Safes007 (talk) 04:39, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
We had a 2021 RFC on British monarch infoboxes & the result was to include "Head of the Commonwealth" in the infobox in the manner that it has been for the last three years at George VI & Elizabeth II & at Charles III since his becoming monarch. GoodDay (talk) 10:08, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I don’t believe that RFC says that. The full closure states that the title should be included, but without a consensus on how it was to be included. I’m simply saying it doesn’t make sense where it’s included currently. Safes007 (talk) 10:40, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree. It's an 100% clearcut MoS vio for something to have such huge prominence in the IB, when it's not mentioned at all in the lead section. Either it's an important fact or it's not, and putting it first is entirely silly. But the local consensus heart wants what the local consensus heart wants, it seems.
I think it's especially poorly considered given that the article goes out of its way to obfuscate rather than elucidate the distinction between the Commonwealth (that he's (supposedly sorta elective) symbolic head of) and the Commonwealth realms (that he's the hereditary monarch of). But good luck getting anywhere with that, either. 109.255.211.6 (talk) 15:14, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I agree with Safes007 that the previous RfC did not decide where to position the "Head of the Commonwealth" in the infobox, just that it should be included in the infobox. Putting it as the first entry under his name always struck me as odd, because that's not the major function of the monarch. I would put it as an "office2" field, as suggested by Safes007, but I wouldn't duplicate the dates, since they are the same as the reign dates, a point made by Celia Homeford and Ivanvector's squirrel in the previous RfC. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 15:29, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
One further comment: just noticed Safes007's suggestion for a footnote in the infobox. My personal preference is to avoid cites in the infobox, for clutter reasons; it's meant to be a quick summary. The proposed footnote could be included in the body of the article, where the "Head of the Commonwealth" function is discussed. Mr Serjeant Buzfuz (talk) 15:54, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
@Safes007:If it were up to me? I'd simply delete it from the infobox, for the same reason I don't support including "Supreme Governor of the Church of England", into the infobox. GoodDay (talk) 20:06, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
But, if there's no consensus to exclude "Head of the Commonwealth" from the infobox? Then, I would support putting that title into a footnote, for the infoboxes of George VI, Elizabeth II & Charles III. GoodDay (talk) 20:27, 6 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I've implemented my second preference and moved Head of the Commonwealth to the first reign section, with a footnote explaining that it's non-hereditary. I think this keeps the title in the box per the RFC, but avoids taking too much room if given a separate reign section. Safes007 (talk) 23:28, 7 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
It looks crowded & leaves the impression that Charles III reigns (which he doesn't) as Head of the Commonwealth, though. GoodDay (talk) 02:50, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]
I can see that as an issue, but I think this is the least worst option that includes the title in the infobox, without having a whole other section that repeats information in the reigns section. I’ll add that clarification to the footnote though. Safes007 (talk) 04:39, 8 May 2024 (UTC)[reply]