Talk:Characters of Final Fantasy VI/Archives/ 1

Edgar

"Edgar, however, could not bear to see the heavy burden of being a king lain upon his brother's shoulders, and used a double-sided coin to ensure that he would win the toss." Doesn't Edgar let Sabin win the coin toss so that he could pick his freedom? --Corilof 18:21, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

I had heard that the coin was given to Edgar by their father and it did have two heads, one of Edgar and one of Sabin. This would mean that the coin toss wasn't rigged. --Stratos40 23:25, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Corilof is right, the coin was double sided and Edgar made sure it was in Sabin's favour to give him the freedom he wanted. --Arrowny 10:54, 20 March 2007 (UTC)

Here's the quote translated from the Japanese version:

Mash: Let's leave the country! Leave this country that's always arguing, and live freely! Big bro, you said you wouldn't want the throne either, didn't you?

Edgar: Freely......... But... This country, if it loses both heirs at once...? ...father said take care of the country... Mash. Let's decide with the coin father gave me. If heads comes up, you win. If tails comes up, I win. Winner chooses the way he likes. No hard feelings. That's fine, right?

Edgar: Here goes... there!

Edgar: And then... You chose freedom.

Sorry to quote so much. We know that the coin had two heads. Edgar tells Sabin (Mash) that if it's heads up Sabin wins. The winner chooses the way he likes. So Edgar rigged the coin toss so that his brother could pick his freedom, no hard feelings. The article does not reflect this. It makes it sound like Edgar rigged it to become king but in fact he rigged it to give his brother freedom. --Corilof 13:58, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

Minor Characters

I added profiles for all the minor characters that I didn't see listed. Owzner, Patriarch, Gau's dad (Crazy Old Man) and Vargas. McJeff 21:27, 15 April 2006 (UTC)

What happened to Kappa? I don't remember where exactly I learned the imps name back in the day, but if you google "Kappa the imp" you'll see him pop up around. Which is implying that not only me, who added him in the first place a long while ago, was familar with him by that name. -Aran--85.164.101.158 01:50, 15 August 2007 (UTC)

Unitialized Pointer?

So that Relm's sketch was glitchy due to an unitialized pointer. That's really fascinating. Is there a reference of some sort? Don

Kefka

Now I admit I'm not as well-versed in protocol here as some, but I pretty distinctly remember that Kefka had his own article before being merged into this page. Why is it that his primary article has disappeared, while those for the main playable characters have been left alone? There's a much, much greater range of actions and things to talk about with him than any of the main characters, so that can't be it. Is it because he's the villain? In that case, why do we still have an article for Final Fantasy VII's Sephiroth? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 70.153.179.203 (talk • contribs) .

Bluntly, because all of the player characters came up for a deletion vote, the verdict of which was to keep. This page came about as part of that discussion. Kefka Palazzo was not up for AfD, and the decision was made shortly thereafter to redirect the individual article here. The previous article was frequently criticized for its high fancruft quotient, and the bulk of the article was an eight paragraph "biography" that essentially said repeated the same information contained in the story section of the main Final Fantasy VI article. As it is, the biggest reason for maintaining articles for each of the player characters is because there are relevant, non-biographical things to be said about them (special attacks, etc.) that don't automatically fall into GameFAQs territory. With villains like Kefka, the only thing we can really "talk about with him" other than a short, non-redundant biography is battle strategy, at which point WP:NOT a strategy guide comes into play. Also, please sign your posts. – Seancdaug 21:14, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Errr, apologies about that. And yes, I suppose I can understand that, but that still brings up the question of why Sephiroth retains his own article. Is the information there less steeped in fancrux? Or is it because he's been in so many different games, and a movie? I ask this out of curiosity, mind you, I'm not particularly familiar with that character and I'm not actively questioning the collective judgment of the community.--Wyborn 23:02, 5 February 2006 (UTC)

Even if that is the answer, it doesn't explain why Kuja, Sin, or Seymour get their own articles, as they've only been in one game each. Thanos6 17:48, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Sephiroth gets his own article because he's quite probably one of the two most recognizable figures to emerge from the series (the other probably being Cloud). He's demonstably well-known, and has been depicted fairly frequently in other media. That is not to say that his article isn't deeply steeped in fancruft, though. For the other characters mentioned, they have their own articles, at this point, only because the process of paring down those articles is difficult, and long-term. It took a mass-AfD to get Kefka's article merged here, and short of going through that process again (which is not what anyone wants, I suspect), we need to think long-term. – Seancdaug 18:04, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Of course, I still say the best way to think long-term is to give everyone their own pages... :) Thanos6 18:18, 9 February 2006 (UTC)

Seancdaug's justification for keeping Kuja, Sin, and Seymour's articles is that FFIX and FFX sold more copies than FFVI, which is something that I think only fuels Kefka's case for an article. See, Kefka is the second-most notable villain after Sephiroth (though, unfortunately, Sephy is way more notable than Kefka) due to his uniqueness, his lines of humor, the way players fondly remember him, and most importantly his evil laugh (which NO other villain has). I've never seen anyone think of Kuja, Sin, or Seymour as memorable in a fond way, even though their games sold more (Kuja is remembered in a negative light, and Seymour is hardly remembered at all). Crazyswordsman 16:56, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

That has never been my case for keeping any of the above articles. I don't think we should keep those articles, actually. As I have now said countless times, the only reason we were able to merge the Kefka article here is because there was an AfD that drew enough attention to the issue. Barring another such event (which I don't think anyone wants to repeat), the process of paring down the existing information, relocating it to a more suitable home, creating an acceptable list entry, and building the consensus necessary to finally enact the change, is a slow, laborious process (which is not at all helped by the fact that there are far more editors who add fancruft than remove it). The fact that people still complain about Kefka, even after the AfD discussion, should indicate that.

Also, I would also like to point out once more that "popularity" is not a worthwhile measurement in this argument. That many people think "fondly" of Kefka is meaningless. Subjects are judged by their notability: not many people are fond of syphilis, for instance, but it's certainly notable enough to have its own article. Kefka's overall notability is affected by the simple fact that approximately 90% fewer people played Final Fantasy VI than Final Fantasy X. If more people hate Kuja than love Kefka (I'm not saying this is true, necessarily, but let's pretend for the sake of an argument), than Kuja probably is more notable. Audience reaction, of course, is not the only measurement of notability: a strong case for notability can also be made if a particular subject is particularly revolutionary, for instance. But we do need to cite sources which support that claim: us saying that a topic is notable does not make it so. A lengthy biographical article which makes minimal attempt to establish verifiable notability (as has been the case with every previous iteration of Kefka's article) is non-encyclopedic. This is as true for Kefka as it is for Kuja, Seymour, or any number of other character articles. And that's why I support the merging (albeit gradual) of all such articles. – Seancdaug 17:44, 17 February 2006 (UTC)

Well, in Seymour's case, a GoogleFight of Kefka vs Seymour Guado reveals that Kefka does not only beat Seymour. He walks all over Seymour (439,000 hits for Kefka and 25000 for Seymour Guado. Adding pages that have Seymour's name on them only probably adds about another 100,000 at most, and Kefka also destroys Ultimecia on Google). And your saying that there have been 90% fewer FFVI players than FFX players is an outright lie. It's probably about 50% fewer at this time. And numbers and statistics aren't the only thing that decides notablilty. If this is the case, then I shall request a merge of Seymour's article to the list of FFX characters. I don't care if Kefka has an article or not. All I want is either all the villains sans Sephiroth to have their own pages or they all get merged (Sephiroth I single out because we can all agree that he gets his own page). So either it's Kefka and Seymour get their articles or neither of them do.

And the mass AFD you were thinking of seems to have been done by another contributor to the FF project if I am not mistaken; maybe there's bias in that? Crazyswordsman 03:31, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

Also, Kefka is a revolutionary villain in the series for being one who does not act with a purpose; he does what he does because he hates. On the flip side, though, I have been told that this wasn't the Kefka in the Japanese version; the Kefka we know and love (hate?) was a creation of Woolsey himself.Crazyswordsman 03:34, 23 February 2006 (UTC)

After doing some thinking, I'd like to ask if it should be mentionned in the article that Kefka is a kafkaesque character. He pretty much fits the description, and his very name is derived from Kafka. Dali 21:34, 16 April 2006 (UTC)

It was deleted as WP:NOR. If you can find a source in WP:RS to cite, and I sure hope there is one, it becomes valid conjecture, and can be added. I'd personally like to see Kefka get his article back for two reasons: 1.Ultimecia has one now and 2. This list is too long. Crazyswordsman 15:06, 17 April 2006 (UTC)

I submit Kefka's article to requests for unprotection, I think the character is way more notable than half the player characters of FF6 (for whom we have articles) and deserves his own article. some support would be appreciated, thanks. Nightmare X 04:49, 31 May 2006 (UTC)

I second that; If Kuja and even Umaro get their own pages, it wouldn't hurt for Kefka to have a page. Umaro doesn't have much information available, but apparently it was enough to get a page. If he gets one, then Kefka should get one. -

Defunctzombie 02:03, 15 September 2006 (UTC)

I agree, Kefka should have his own page. If people like Kuja and Sephiroth can have their own page, Kefka should too.

Grandpaporridge 16:55, 6 November 2006

I got sprites

..Of the minor characters. I can upload them without much effort (there are no legal issues because I ripped the sprites). I just need to know the process by which we do this. Crazyswordsman 05:04, 12 April 2006 (UTC)

One thing: ripping sprites IS messing with legal issues. - Armor Nick 07:25, 10 May 2006 (UTC)

Banon and Duncan

Due to the fact that the sprites for Banon and Duncan are the same, and the fact that Banon and Duncan are never present at the same time, and neither ever explicitly die, I have assumed since first playing this game that they were clearly the same people and intended to be interpreted as such. I am surprised to find no mention of that here. I cannot clearly remember if it is ever explicitly stated, or implied, but I had thought it was. I will look into it further. Also in Rachel's article you state that "she pushed him off of a collapsing bridge" which really sounds like you're saying she tried to kill him. Heaven forbid anyone should get the wrong impression. -rav July 7 2006

Uh, wow. That's not much of a point. It's never implied in any way (I started playing awhile ago and am currently in World of Ruin; my memory's still fresh). And the pallette swap...are all the NPCs that aren't on the screen at the same time the same person?—ウルタプ 03:16, 10 July 2006 (UTC)

Disdainful tone duely noted and not appreciated. I don't wanna play through this again untill the GBA release so it'll feel somewhat new, so you're gonna have to wait untill then for me to make my real case. But I would point out that at this point in the series (unlike FFIII) Pallette swaps are relatively rare, especially among named characters. Also Banon would be the ONLY character whom you ever actually have control of in this game to be a Pallette swap. The only possible exceptions would be the ghosts, who aren't named, and Mog, who is a moogle... and if you wanna be bitchy, Biggs and Wedge, in all three exceptions though they are designed to be indiscernible. The fact that Banon is at one point a Player controlled Character leads me to believe he was too important for a pallette swap. And I'd at least like to be able ot make my case before it's condemned. But please at least someone consider rewording the Rachel bit. -Rav, July 10 2006

If you want to be picky, Edgar got pallete swapped for his Gerad disguise, and seeing as how he is playable throughout the whole game and isn't "too important" for a pallete swap, your assumption that certain characters are immune to the practice is unfounded.--Stratos40 23:31, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

Regarding Kefka ..

Sorry im new here and I dont know how to reply to topics.

Anyways

I agree a Kefka should have his own article. Gaming journalist and FF fans(who played FF before VII) have always fondly remember Kefka the most. EGM pointed out two of their most memorable moments in FFVI are the Opera Scene and where Kefka poisons the water supply.

Also this comes directly from gamespot "General Kefka, on the other hand, is a fascinating case study. No matter what the player thinks of him, there's no denying that Kefka is one of the most personality-filled villains in RPG history. Before Kefka, RPG villains had been shrouded in mystery; townspeople would whisper hints of the Evil One's existence, but the Evil One himself would only fly in at the eleventh hour via Deus Ex Machina Airlines. Kefka, instead, is onstage from act one, scene two. His mind is not merely warped, but is seriously bent. He has an arsenal of one-liners most Hollywood villains would kill for. He is like a little boy frying ants with a magnifying glass, gleefully amoral; not only uncaring but also unaware his cruelty has any moral implications. It has been said that the audience will hate a good villain ... but love a great one. Kefka achieves the greatest honor a villain can receive: he is well liked." source http://www.gamespot.com/features/vgs/universal/finalfantasy_hs/sec1_6_3.html

from FFONLINE.COM this was conducted in the site's message boards and its members who is their favoraite Final Fantasy characters (dating from I-IX) and Kefka was ranked #2 falling behind Celes. And here is a very nice write up about him on that page "Psychology of Evil dictates that men like Kefka could never exist in the real world. In our entire history of civilization, no ruthless dictator or cold-hearted conqueror has ever thought of themselves as ‘evil.’ In their mind, what they did was justified and was for the greater good of the people. In some cases, they act as if they were the hand of righteousness. Yet, for some reason that cannot be fully comprehended, Kefka is a popular villain that we all love to hate. His actions seem to have no purpose: he is the clown prince of madness spreading destruction and pestilence while freely admitting that he enjoys every minute of it! Simply disturbing. It is frightening to imagine what obscene thoughts must traffic within that twisted brain perched on his sinuous body. Kefka’s goal is also equally vague: to destroy. Life is blasphemous and he reveals his magnum opus to total annihilation. Of what, Kefka? The planet? The universe? All of existence?! You’ve got a wee bit of work ahead of you. You know, maybe he is just plain crazy…" http://www.ffonline.com/news/news.php?article=2001-11-12&page=5

All in all I dont see why a character with such a huge following would not get an article.

It's not a popularity contest. We don't "award" articles based on how popular a character is, even though such arguments are an undeniably important part of determining notability. The other part of the issue is whether or not anyone would be looking for Kefka outside of the context of characters from Final Fantasy VI. Since he's only appeared in the one game, the answer to that one is "probably not." The only other reason to create a seperate article, per WP:FICT, is if there exists a surplus of relevant information that becomes too large and unwieldy to keep here. And that should progress organically: don't create a new article and then look for information to pad it out, add any new information to where it currently belongs (here), and create the new article only when it becomes necessary to do so. Doing it any other way is an open invitation to fancruft, bias, and poor writing, and fictional character articles are a magnet for this kind of problem (see Sephiroth for one such example). As it is, the Kefka section of this article is pretty much stable, and has been for a considerable length of time. Indeed, the most significant recent changes have been to trim it back. Which suggests that there's no real structural purpose to spinning the section off into its own article. – Seancdaug 04:46, 23 July 2006 (UTC)

This is all true, and I believe you are very right to distinguish "Notability" as the determining factor for basing such decisions as who gets an article of not. However, I think your arguments reguarding the number of games Kefka has been in is irrelevant. The fact is that FFVI is one of the most well-known games. I well know its sales are low, compared to more recent releases, but I think you should take into consideration the fact that the market of Gamers was much smaller back then. I would also cite the massive availability of SNES ROMs and Emulators. I know of many, many people who have played this game but never bought it. And reguardless of sales, the fact remains that among those who have been around the Video Game for very long, it is one of the most respected RPGs of all time. Grated this Notability, and the fact that other FFVI Characters have appeared in other games, I would submit that all Characters central to the story should have their own article. I also encourage regular checking to keep such articles relevant and accurate. It is not so hard to keep an article clean when you can just undo the last person's changes to the article, and I think that the sub article on Kefka in this section would be just as prone to "fancruft."

To expand on my Notability argument, you should consider, in determining Notability the number or articles and other forms he is mentioned in as well. The originator of this thread cited a few examples and the fact is that he is a talked about character. If someone read that gamespot article and had not played this game, he would be looking for a Wiki entry on Kefka, and would find none. I am not dilligent enough to find and cite articles or surveys but I remember one on "Best Video Game Villian" in which Kefka was an entrant. I don't entirely understand why it is that you would not make this article. It would not be difficult to maintain, I could devote time to doing that mself. There is no limit to the number of articles that can exist, and no space requirments. Wiki Police is easy just don't allow any changes that haven't been submitted in a talk section like this one first. Also, as this topic seems to keep coming up, I would consider that some indication as to the Notability of the character and the need for a separate article. Most of the arguments supporting his addition so far have been at least a little bias, I will happily admit. Towards addressing that concern, I think Kefka is okay. But only okay. He would not win "Best Video Game Villian" in my book.

However, I only want this change to take place if there is enough demand for it. I suggest you let it sit for a while and see how much response there is on the issue. I also have slight concern that single entities may be claiming too much power on this Wiki. One person who means well can easily cause as much damage as a buncha preteens adding irrelevant fan opinions or theories. I would like to see a more democratic environment with reguards to changes to this section, but I think it's more or less destined to always come down to one person's strong words and persistance VS anothers, which i do not wish to engage in. I think the addition of a Kefka article is a good Idea. There is my vote for support. - Rav 07/24/2006

The popularity of Final Fantasy VI itself isn't really the issue. No matter how popular it is, it is the only place in which Kefka has appeared in a significant role. As such, Kefka's entire claim to notability rests firmly within that single game. To put it another way, any discussion of Kefka in an encyclopedic context is, by definition, a discussion of Final Fantasy VI. Which means that there is no compelling reason to seperate the two subjects other than size and flow concerns: if there is too much information about Kefka than can be comfortably contained here, then it makes sense to create a new article. But that does not seem to be the case: his section here is certainly not too long or unwieldy, and there's been no complaint that it skimps on the details of his character or his popularity and reception. As for someone looking for an entry for Kefka: that's what redirects exist for. Anyone searching for Kefka will be automatically brought to this page, where Kefka is plainly and clearly listed in the table of contents.

As for why there is such resistance to this article, it's precisely for the reason I've stated above: it's being treated as a popularity contest. Kefka is popular, so he "deserves" an article. The problem with that is, despite your offer to take stewardship of the article, this has historically been a recipe for disaster. Other articles on "popular" characters invariably become a haven for fancruft, original research, and poor writing in general. I've listed some examples of precisely this problem: Sephiroth (Final Fantasy VII) is a major one, but there's also previously problem articles that have since been combined back into their appropriate list: Necron, for example, or even the old Kefka article, before it was trimmed back and merged for exactly these reasons. Any article that attracts so many problems should have a strong reason for existing, and that simply does not appear to be the case here.

It's a logical fallacy to assume that because people keep demanding that Kefka have a seperate article that he's actually notable enough, by Wikipedia standards, to qualify for one. It's systemic bias in action: Wikipedia editors are not a representative sample of the individuals who would use an encyclopedia. Moreover, the people who are demanding that Kefka have his own article are, in all likelihood, the people who are least likely to get any use out of it. They already know about Kefka, and in all likelihood there's very little that would justify inclusion in an encyclopedia entry on the character that they do not already know.

Finally, Wikipedia is not a democracy, and consensus is determined based on the perceived persuasiveness of an argument, not on the weight of numerical support for an action. Besides which, I am not an administrator: I have no more power than you or any other non-administration to unprotect or create an article on Kefka. So I do not at all appreciate the implication that I am "claiming too much power." I am merely arguing the same point that I have argued all along, and I will continue to do so until I am convinced otherwise. Suffice it to say, this has not happened yet. As it is, the decision that there should not be a seperate article on Kefka was made after lengthy discussion, over a number of related votes for deletion, and over at the WikiProject Final Fantasy discussion page. A great deal of discussion and deliberation took place before the final consensus was reached. You are, of course, fully within your rights to revive the issue and make a counterargument. But those of us who still feel that the decisions made previously are correct have an equal right to respond to your arguments. That, simply put, is just the way things work here. – Seancdaug 16:55, 24 July 2006 (UTC)

I naturally still feel that the addition of the extra article has merits that are being ignored but it is more important to me to address something else. In my statement on power in the Wikipedia world, I did not intend to implicate you, I was merely venting at the system. I do not feel that a system in which the Merit of a proposal is determined solely by the subjective interpretation of an argument is a good system at all. Strictly because of subjectivity. Many wonderful ideas are presented very very poorly, and thus ignored despite their merits. I understand none of this are in a position to change this but I wanted to clarify so that you did not feel this a personal attack on you. As you stated you have no more power to directly change things here than anyone else. But you do seem to command a stronger voice than anyone else here and that is a source of power in this system. I DO NOT accuse you of abusing that power or coming by it unfairly, in fact the fact that you have a strong voice has nothing at all to do with your intentions. I would however encourage you to be careful to consider all sides of an argument and if you see one that is being under-represented, attempt to use your voice to strengthen it. I am merely attempting to do the same here. It bothers me when people throw out ideas when they see no good reason to implement them, but the argument can also be made that there is no good reason not to. You have raised many valid points and many valid points have been raised against you so i expect this issue to remain unresolved. There is simply not enough pull either way for change, and in such circumstances I think it's unfortunate that people who support the current system have a natural upper hand, despite the fact that neither way of doing things can be definitively said to be better. To people who read this if you think of continueing the argument for Kefka's article, read well and consider that the ground is already well tread upon. -rav July 25 2005

Kefka's section is becoming huge, I think that it would be best to split it into a new article, Kefka is way more notable than Umaro, yet he has his own article, therefore, I feel it would be right to split the Kefka section into a new article. Nightmare X 00:41, 21 August 2006 (UTC)

I must concur. I think we can all agree that Umaro, even if he is a playable character (albeit a completely optional one), is both not as important and not as fleshed out a character as Kefka is. While I won't immediately begin arguing for an independent article for Kefka (because I see how well that has gone in the past), I will say that an independent article for Umaro is excessive, and if Kefka will not be granted one, I don't see why Umaro needs one as well. Dancing Svaron 18:46, 22 August 2006 (UTC)

So...if we add quotes and his abilities when you fight him, It will be roughly as long as an average FFVI character page. Because if you take out the quotes and abilities, for the most part, Kefka's would be longer than any of them. But if you add to Kefka's any abilities he has when you fight him, as well as his large list of memorable quotes...I see no reason why Kefka should not have his main article. Oh yea, I'm at a college computer, so I'm not gonna log in...you can't trust some people. 216.19.236.170 21:18, 11 September 2006 (UTC)

Except that stuff is unencyclopedic. We're not GameFAQs, and quotes go in WikiQuote. If someone can present to me (and I hope to God someone can) interviews with Amano or Woolsey regarding Kefka, I'll bring them up and see if that merits the creation of a Kefka article. Sir Crazyswordsman 16:20, 3 October 2006 (UTC)

Kefka's relevance beyond a single game

I've seen numerous people mention that the reason Kefka does not deserve his own article is because he is really only relevant to a single title. I would argue against this, saying that he acted as a template for many of the villains that came after him. Sephiroth, for example, takes a page from Kefka in his pseudo-angelic form in the final battle of Final Fantasy VII. There are more similarities between Kefka and the baddies that followed. He's a seminal event in the history of the Final Fantasy series, in terms of antagonists.

Look at it this way: if you got a whole team of videogame journalists in here, they would probably tell us that Kefka is a seminal antagonist in the Final Fantasy series, with relevance extended perhaps beyond the genre. He is more than a faceless enemy. The fact that he appears at the top of so many respected magazine's "best bad dudes ever" lists speaks for itself. I'm sure we can even expand on his desire to create a "monument to non-existence". Plus, his section of the characters list is long. The whole list is too long. We need to give people more articles. Like, are we going to run out of digital trees? What's the big deal, really? (Anon. --74.104.113.26 06:38, 18 December 2006 (UTC) )

I thought Kefka was also a transvestite, correct. So, he should get his own article, xP (TG-Lover. 2/23/06+1)

He's also the only successful villain in the entire Final Fantasy franchise, being the only one who ever accomplished his goal of destroying the world. 64.128.89.154 15:39, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

...along with Emperor Palamecia, Exdeath, Sin, Promathia, and the Spirits Within. Kariteh 17:12, 30 May 2007 (UTC)

'Palazzo'?

I don't remember Kefka's last name ever given in the game. Does Squaresoft give him a full name somewhere? This seems suspiciously like a fan invention.

It's in strategy guides and game manuals and such. The last names of all FF characters are rarely given in game, but they (almost) always have them. -rav

Correction: It's not in any of the game manuals (either SNES or PSX). Perhaps the GBA version will be different, but not yet. It wasn't in the Nintendo Power strategy guide either. I'd like to know exactly which guides include it. Cidolfas 22:38, 8 November 2006 (UTC)

Kefka's last name was mentioned on his figurine made for the Final Fantasy Master Creatures set. It was on the box--Stratos40 23:27, 26 February 2007 (UTC) Yes, it is mentioned in Japanese-exclusive materials. "Cefca Palazzo". (Never "Kefka Palazzo".) Kariteh 15:24, 27 February 2007 (UTC)

Kefka's surname is also mentioned in the Yoshitaka Amano illustration artbook "Japan". He is, however, called "Cefca Palazzo" (not Kefka).

Notability

Sephiroth has his own article, and he is only known better because FFVII generated a mass of rabid fanboys (and fangirls, too). Everyone who has played previous games of the Final Fantasy saga knows that there are more relevant deaths than Aeris' and way better characters than Sephiroth. Kefka is one of these characters, and he is better known by players who have played the whole series, not by the one who just jumped in with FFVII.

Kane Blueriver 11:15, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

Truer words never spoken. However, we live in a culture where pretty graphics and the nuances of Japanese manga/anime characters (spiky hair, bishonen-ness) dominate in popularity. If a game doesn't have "good graphics" (2D graphics = lose), it'll be relatively unknown to popular culture...and the relatively unknown characters from games like that simply don't get their own articles in Wikipedia. That, unfortunately, is how the game goes.

On the other hand, perhaps the inevitable remaking of FFVI on the DS will make it more popular with our graphic-addicted world of video gaming. Mikhajlovich (talk) 07:01, 17 September 2008 (UTC)

Daryl versus Darill

"The English version of the game... switches between 'Darill' and 'Daryl' several times." Which version of the game is this statement referring to? As far as I remember, the North American SNES release never refers to this character as "Darill." Can anyone verify whether this statement is true and if so, which version of the game it occurs in? Mathfreq 22:44, 30 August 2006 (UTC)

The original SNES version. The most substantial examples I remember are that her tomb is called "Darill's Tomb", while Dullahan says "DARYL LIES HERE" before attacking. Something along those lines.—ウルタプ 03:24, 31 August 2006 (UTC)

No, as far as i can remember, it was Daryl's Tomb and not Darill's Tomb.

—Preceding unsigned comment added by Ryubahamut (talk • contribs)

The North American SNES release uses "Daryl" in all dialogue. However, when you enter the tomb, the text at the top of the screen says "Darill's tomb." LoveCowboy2024

Gogo Identity

Alright, rather than get into an edit war over this, I'll just restart the conversation here. This topic was already discussed and agreed upon on the Talk Page for Gogo's article that was recently merged into this one. The rumor/theory regarding the Gogo/Adlai Stevenson connection is quite notable, can be sourced (a website was listed on Gogo's previous page, as well as references on many other websites are available) and is even mentioned on Adlai Stevenson's own page. As I previously stated, we already discussed this issue are decided to keep the information on the page. KatzztaK 21:44, 7 October 2006 (UTC)

Present the sources. The single link that was on Gogo (Final Fantasy) was someone's personal site. - A Man In Bl♟ck (conspire | past ops) 11:33, 8 October 2006 (UTC)

KatxxTak, the Gogo article does not seem to have been merged, but simply removed. Am I wrong? All the other characters have their own page except for Gogo. I remember the Gogo page was constantly being edited, but was deletion the appropriate action to take?--FlameMan 04:20, 14 October 2006 (UTC)

As should be obvious by now, I have had absolutely no time to devote to this article in the past week and a half. My University classes are revving up at the moment, so while I will attempt to create some time for this, I would appreciate some support from others in correcting this issue.KatzztaK 18:34, 17 October 2006 (UTC)

Sorry if this has already been discussed. I was concerned about this:

At one point in the game, it is mentioned that Daryll's airship crash landed on the triangle island on which you find Gogo. It is believed that Gogo and Daryll may be one in the same, although no proof of this is ever stated.

In which version of the game is the bolded part mentioned? It's not in the GBA or PS translations, as far as I can tell; the former says the airship's remains were in a distant valley, the latter says a distant land. (Also, I took the liberty of adding a subject line to the sentence below.) 86.136.156.205 (talk) 20:48, 14 April 2008 (UTC)

Returners

is returners supposed to redirect here?

Update to Advance translation

Seeing as how the Final Fantasy V pages were updated to the translation used in the GBA version, it would make sense that the FFVI pages get updated as well (with mentions to other translation variations). Maetch 17:50, 9 February 2007 (UTC)

Kefka vs. Cefca

Just something interesting i thought i'd point out. In the GBA game, i noticed a funny joke where one of the guards in Figaro Castle in the world of ruin says that some of the fanatics "...spell Kefka's name with C's instead of K's...". The GBA version is the only one that i've played, so i don't know if this is in previous versions, but i thought it was funny and maybe could go in the notes section under Kefka's entry. The Great Morgil 22:58, 20 February 2007 (UTC)

That is kind of funny, considering his original spelling was with "C"s. That's probably an inside joke meant to amuse diehard fans of the game.--Stratos40 23:56, 26 February 2007 (UTC)

GBA or SNES

I'm getting aggrivated with all the changes being made that only change the name of an attack. Somehow we need to decide on what game to use the names from, and to keep them all that way. I had to change Strago's attacks back to their GBA forms twice because the rest of the article used the GBA names and I was attempting to keep the consistency.--Stratos40 11:25, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

I'm for not using any attack name at all. My reasoning is that all these attack names are fancruft, they belong in a gameplay guide and not Wikipedia. Using only the GBA names would be biased since the GBA version is only one out of the three released versions of the game. Using both the GBA and SNES/PSX names would be doubling the cruft. I think the only names that we could mention in both their forms are the character names, like Madonna/Madeline and Tritoch/Valigarmandar, but certainly not attack and magic names. Kariteh 11:41, 16 March 2007 (UTC)

That sounds like the easiest way to solve the problem, by not making anyone happy, non sarcasm. this way it won't be constantly switched from one game to the other. im just trying to keep the article consistent.--Stratos40 00:26, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

I'd say use names from the GBA remake—it's not bias, it's official retcon—and mention the other names.—ウルタプ 21:05, 18 March 2007 (UTC)

Actually, it IS bias, because they are going to be die-hard fans that will say "ZOMG you kant use teh GBA names tehy suxxorz use teh SNES names they roxxors." I would know, i personally would rather have the SNES used, but not using any would quell much of the fighting.--Stratos40 00:26, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

...not using new official names for the sake of diehards is bias. :|—ウルタプ 00:28, 19 March 2007 (UTC)

God, this is like arguing with a wall. The SNES version is the most popular version by far and the original version. Using the GBA version's names would be like changing the name of a Roman emperor for textbooks because the modern Italians found a name they liked more.

7FlushSetzer 01:22, 10 June 2007 (UTC)

Strago and Relm's relationship

Both the original Japanese version, and the GBA retranslation, are much vaguer about their relationship; the one NPC says Relm isn't Strago's actual granddaughter, then follows up with "or so I heard," so it's not as definite fact the way that the American SNES version would make one think. Thanos6 03:12, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

I think most people would assume it's an adoptive relationship, but you're right–we can't prove anything…—ウルタプ 04:13, 30 March 2007 (UTC)

Gestahl's sucessor?

Just a thought, but they never mention in the game (to my knowledge) whether Gestahl had a successor or not in case of his death. (That might have been something mentioned on the Floating Continent, though it could have been just that Kefka was being his crazy self... I might need to review that bit.) Thoughts? Kennard2 00:02, 5 April 2007 (UTC)

    He doesn't need a successor, Kefka takes over :)

Mog learning human speech from Ramuh

The details are in the GBA translation. Mog: An old dude named Ramuh taught me your language, kupo! He kept showing up in my dreams and telling me to help you, kupo! So... I'm gonna help you, kupo! - Gilgamesh 11:06, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

I apologize, I shouldn't have reverted hastily. Kariteh 12:53, 5 May 2007 (UTC)

Thank you. We all need to realize that the Woolsey translation was very heavily edited and full of errors introduced by copyeditors uncontextual to the flow of the story. As such, it was not very reliable canon. The GBA translation is much better, but even it is imperfect and moderately copyedited. I think we need to start citing excerpts from the Japanese script accompanied with a translation—the translation can be relied on tentatively, but a proper review of the Japanese would be decisive in the case of ambiguity or dispute. Then who knows—maybe we'll end up modifying some of the edits we're agreeing to at the present. - Gilgamesh 12:44, 7 May 2007 (UTC)

Merging Celes

The article on Celes has most of the out of universe information on the character, and would be better suited to bolster this article and help make it one better, hopefully GA status article. Judgesurreal777 02:22, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Don't you think that the specific information in the main article is too dense for full inclusion on this page? — Eric Herboso 03:09, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

Since a lot of the information is not specificially needed in a wikipedia article, and we can always link to the Final Fantasy Wikia for complete information, we can safely trim back a lot and add maybe a sentence or two more. Judgesurreal777 15:40, 13 May 2007 (UTC)

• Since this game has no sequels and whatnot, all the characters should be merged in except maybe Terra and Locke per Characters of Final Fantasy VIII. — Deckiller 15:53, 13 May 2007 (UTC)
• Merged all but Terra and Locke. — Deckiller 21:54, 14 May 2007 (UTC)

Hey! That's not a merge! That's a huge loss of information! (Compare the old Celes page to the new 3-paragraph section on her.) Look, I'm not fully against a merge, but if it is to be done, then, you shouldn't just haphazardly delete information from the articles. Personally, I think adding all that info would make this page way too long, and it would be far better to NOT merge, but either way we should not lose all of that info from the articles. Furthermore, it should be noted that the main characters of FFVI were NOT Terra and Locke only. In fact, post WOR, you could play to the end of the game with just Celes, Edgar, and Setzer. Certainly you wouldn't call a game that required the use of only these three characters for more than half of gameplay as considering them minor characters, would you?

I really need to hear from others before I decide how to proceed with this; either we need to put up the individual articles again, or we need to truly merge in all the information that was lost when Deckiller merged them. What does everyone else think we should do? — Eric Herboso 05:54, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

All that information is excess that doesn't belong on a general encyclopedia. See Characters of Final Fantasy VIII, a featured article. Terra and Locke will eventually be merged as well; I didn't have time to do all five.

Furthermore, each character's entry needs to be trimmed further, and information on how these characters were received critically and how they were created needs to be added. — Deckiller 11:47, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

The original article was full of WP:OR, cruft, and unneccessary detail. The new trimmed-down version has maintained all of the salient facts that are verifiable. Example: Celes' name may have come from Ceres is OR without a source, and does not belong in the article. I fully endorse the merged version that Deckiller has created. Also important to consider is that these characters only appear in one final fantasy with no spin-offs nor gaidens, and these characters' articles cannot assert their notability. Better to merge them into an article that can. --—ΔαίδαλοςΣΣ 16:00, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

I think the Final Fantasy Project is in the right, as the policy citations should demonstrate. No information has been lost either, since it can be found at the Final Fantasy Wikia, which will have all the detail you could want. Judgesurreal777 19:16, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Looking at the two versions you wanted to compare, I see that only WP:OR, trivial gameplay details and redundant plot summary have been removed and compressed (quite well, actually) into a solid three paragraphs. I see it as a good step towards GA. Axem Titanium 21:42, 15 May 2007 (UTC)

Celes section expanded and moved up with an image of her added. She is a very important character and she has a case of being the main character of FFVI along with Terra. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 99.177.92.88 (talk) 09:39, 7 April 2009 (UTC)

I want to build on the reception and legacy thing.

Is there anything notable we can put in? I know there's some very highly touted criticel praise of Kefka. Too bad fan forums can't count as notability, because there are a lot of heated debates about these things that continue to this day (almost every forum has a Terra vs Celes thread, etc, debates on who the main character is. I'd like to find something in a WP:RS that fits this. Any ideas?) --Sir Crazyswordsman 23:48, 22 June 2007 (UTC)

I think popularity polls organized by websites are considered reliable, like "Character Battles" on GameFAQs for instance. Kariteh 07:52, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Definitely; we had a discussion a few months back about adding character battle polls from major websites. — Deckiller 16:56, 23 June 2007 (UTC)

Kefka

Kefka's sprite looks nothing like the clown shoes in the CGI scenes and official art. Same with all the characters. Did the same person make the sprites and art?

No. --70.143.43.70 (talk) 02:33, 8 February 2009 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Final Fantasy VI - Edgar And Mash.ogg

Image:Final Fantasy VI - Edgar And Mash.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

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BetacommandBot 07:14, 30 August 2007 (UTC)

Uhhh...

Regarding the note in Setzer's section about his appearence in Kingdom Hearts II. "He is either beaten, or defeated" I assume that it's supposed to be something else, but could someone clear that up for me? Lychosis ^T/C 21:28, 19 September 2007 (UTC)

Boring..

This article is almost nothing but dry, boring text. It would help greatly to include some images so we know what the characters being described look like. But I'm probably wasting my breath; images, too many image, fair use images, free use images or whatever is bad in Wikipedia, taboo and should be totally abstained from. I guess we'll all just have to Google it instead - a helluva lot easier, and no need to deal with that damned Betabot that keeps deleting anything and everything that livens up an article. 24.81.138.241 (talk) 17:09, 31 January 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Final Fantasy VI - Aria di Mezzo Carattere.ogg

Image:Final Fantasy VI - Aria di Mezzo Carattere.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:09, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Final Fantasy VI - Edgar And Mash.ogg

Image:Final Fantasy VI - Edgar And Mash.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:11, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Final Fantasy VI - Forever Rachel.ogg

Image:Final Fantasy VI - Forever Rachel.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:12, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Final Fantasy VI - Locke.ogg

Image:Final Fantasy VI - Locke.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

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If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:14, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Fair use rationale for Image:Final Fantasy VI - Under Martial Law.ogg

Image:Final Fantasy VI - Under Martial Law.ogg is being used on this article. I notice the image page specifies that the image is being used under fair use but there is no explanation or rationale as to why its use in this Wikipedia article constitutes fair use. In addition to the boilerplate fair use template, you must also write out on the image description page a specific explanation or rationale for why using this image in each article is consistent with fair use.

Please go to the image description page and edit it to include a fair use rationale. Using one of the templates at Wikipedia:Fair use rationale guideline is an easy way to insure that your image is in compliance with Wikipedia policy, but remember that you must complete the template. Do not simply insert a blank template on an image page.

If there is other fair use media, consider checking that you have specified the fair use rationale on the other images used on this page. Note that any fair use images lacking such an explanation can be deleted one week after being tagged, as described on criteria for speedy deletion. If you have any questions please ask them at the Media copyright questions page. Thank you.

BetacommandBot (talk) 21:15, 13 February 2008 (UTC)

Cefca

The line "In Japanese official publications, his name is spelled Cefca" in itself is utter nonsense unless his name is written in Roman script in those publications, which I wouldn't really consider likely seeing as the sentence continues giving the katakana spelling of his name, which wouldn't make sense if the name was originally written in Roman letters. If it is spelled as ケフカ it is spelled ケフカ, which is neither Cefca or Kefka. I've googled a bit but all I could find was people saying his name was supposed to be Cefka, not the "official" publications or links to them. I'd say this remark has no place on the page unless it's sourced and the source actually verifies it. 130.89.1.11 (talk) 00:15, 8 August 2008 (UTC)

Merging Kefka

Overall, it really doesn't seem like the character needs an article. With only one real appearance (Dissidia is mainly just fan service), it would be best to use the reception to strengthen this list instead. On a side note, wow, this list really needs to be trimmed. TTN (talk) 16:12, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Reject, number of games is irrelevant if the character has been given a great deal of praise and coverage by reviewers and fans, and Kefka has. And, "mainly just fanservice" is a biased way of looking at it - Dissidia's a game, Kefka appears in it, that's that. The Clawed One (talk) 16:17, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

(Edit conflict) It has a meaty enough reception section that focuses on the character itself, and with more out there that hasn't been mentioned yet it would throw the balance out of whack for this article (especially given most other characters in the game have tidbits, if that). Development is actually the one aspect it lacks, since there doesn't seem to be as much promoted material for pre-FF7 characters, save for some bits for his Dissidia appearance. But I disagree that appearing in only one title in a major role is grounds to merge.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:23, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

It's meaty, but it's still being used to hold up two single paragraphs of plot information, which I'm sure can easily be trimmed even more. That's why I'm focusing on the one game (and one spin-off that doesn't really focus much on the character) angle. Some of the stuff in reception can probably be done away with anyways. Not every top 25 list is actually important. TTN (talk) 16:31, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I only agree with you that the plot being trimmed. Reception from reliable sources shouldn't be liberally cast aside, especially when many of those sources have little to do with discussing Final Fatnasy as a whole and instead the importance and impact of the character. I mean hell, we have a full blown book analyzing him as a character.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:39, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I certainly don't mean to remove anything actually important, but I'm sure you can agree that sites like UGO and GameDaily do have not the same level of acclaim as sites like IGN and GameSpot. Those two express the same sentiments as the others, so they are fairly redundant. If they gave the contrasting opinion, I would be more inclined to care about what they actually state. TTN (talk) 16:47, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I can agree on GameDaily's mentioning, it was a buffer addition if anything and I can go ahead and remove it. UGO.com is more important on the grounds its list is covering Kefka in relation to JRPG characters as a whole, which does have some significance despite repetition of the same thoughts.

Just for future note both companies do have significant backing (GameDaily = AOL, UGO Networks now owns 1UP.com), and are regarded by WP:VG/S as on par with IGN and GameSpot.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 16:55, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Have you happened to see any specific reception regarding Gestahl? If you are up for potentially merging the article at all, most of the top # lists can be included in Kefka's section, while the piece about Kefka that is already in the reception section of this article can be built to compare him to Gestahl and other Final Fantasy villains. I think that would be a good way to balance it out. I'm not doubting that those sites are reliable, but it's just that if one is going to remove redundant sources from an article, they would go long before more noted sites. TTN (talk) 17:33, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Multiple sites expressing the same opinions does not make them redundant. It serves to show that the expression opinion is widely held. The Clawed One (talk) 18:07, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Multiple sites are fine to show an opinion, but it does get redundant when it gets past a certain point, especially when there are no sites that have a contrasting opinion to balance it out. TTN (talk) 18:11, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

Well you can't really cite a need for a contrasting opinion when one hasn't been found yet in a reliable source though. Kefka just all around has had a heap of praise, comparison and analysis with very little comparison to anything, though I recall one or two comparing his weight to Sephiroth's as a villain.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:18, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I'm not really saying that it is required, but it does help the case for pruning the reception section, regardless of whether this is merged or not. Overall, my point is really just to add some weight to this article, as it is going to be much smaller after I'm done trimming it, and half of the reception section is already about Kefka anyway. It seems better to have a featured article and a strong character list, rather than a featured article, a sort of strong character list, and a character article that has more reception than the rest of its content. TTN (talk) 18:25, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I can understand that, though I think here it might have a lesser effect. The character list, much like the Kefka article, is still in dire need of development information, so even with Kefka merged back in here it'll be stuck at where it is (it's not like Aki Ross to Final Fantasy: The Spirits Within, where the former would assist the latter heavily if merged).

There's some bits of reception for the characters other that Kefka here and there: IGN named several some of the best in the franchise, and Joystiq listed several they wanted to see in Dissidia along with reception bits. The GameFAQs character battle bit has to go: that's been deemed unreliable since awhile back. I do think though this could be made into a strong character list with Kefka still as an aside.--Kung Fu Man (talk) 18:37, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

While creation information is generally a necessity for character articles, I imagine a list could probably survive without it. Though as I've said with Kefka, supporting what could easily be a single paragraph of plot with multiple paragraphs of reception seems pointless to me. If a few paragraphs of creation information (at least one from FFVI and one from Dissidia), do turn up, I can see it being reasonable as a stand alone article. TTN (talk) 20:03, 26 July 2009 (UTC)

I do agree it should be kept separated at the moment as Kefka's story in Dissidia is sorta of a reboot.Fractyl (talk) 05:01, 15 August 2009 (UTC)

Ultimania ish development information currently not in the article

The following source should be translated and used to expand the current incomplete article:

• Yoshitaka Amano & Hironobu Sakaguchi Interview (from the Japan: Final Fantasy artbook)

Anyone willing to help translate even one page is welcome! Jonathan Hardin' (talk) 08:06, 8 June 2010 (UTC)

Updated the link. Jonathan Hardin' (talk) 19:54, 20 February 2013 (UTC)

Gogo's gender

Gogo's gender is indecipherable. This article referred to Gogo as a male, but it is never known whether this is fact. I've updated Gogo's section to reflect this. If anyone finds a credible source with a definitive gender listed, feel free to cite it within the updated article. mheart (talk) 01:01, 29 September 2010 (UTC)

I believe there is a point in the SNES port of the game where Gogo is referred to as "he". FF3TerraAndLocke (talk) 12:42, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

Setzer

His concept design was also done by Nomura rathar than Amano. Both Setzer & Shadow were his (you can tell both have their design roots in that oldschool anime style). —Preceding unsigned comment added by 76.101.59.20 (talk) 14:22, 7 May 2011 (UTC)

Well, we need a source. TheStickMan^[✆Talk] 02:22, 8 May 2011 (UTC)

Uniformative Character Descriptions

The character descriptions in this article are often not informative enough about the characters lore-based superpowers. If you took the paragraphs by themselves, you'd think most of these characters were just normal humans. Locke and Edgar are the only two normal humans in the entire cast, and even they become Magic users. The characters need a paragraph added to describe the lore-based aspects of their superpowers, and another paragraph describing how their superpowers are manifested in gameplay. I find that to be an important distinction. Craftmatic2 (talk) 20:31, 11 January 2012 (UTC)

Terra Branford Plot Twist

Upon playing the SNES version of FF3/FF6, the early part of the game teases a relationship between Locke and Terra (just before Celes arrives). Terra is seen with hair similar to Rachel. There is also a segment where Edgar makes a comment during battle to how he admires Terra. Would it be possible for there to be a mention of this? FF3TerraAndLocke (talk) 12:41, 23 February 2012 (UTC)

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