Talk:Bruce Wayne (DC Extended Universe)

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Robert Pattinson[edit]

I think we should make it clear that Robert Pattinson's portrayal of Batman is not the same as Ben Affleck's and is set in a separate universe from the DCEU. It was confirmed recently.[1] --WuTang94 (talk) 05:31, 27 August 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Page Move[edit]

I think we should move the page from Bruce Wayne (DC Extended Universe) to Batfleck per WP:COMMONNAME. — Preceding unsigned comment added by Sudipto Surjo (talk • contribs) 16:03, 20 April 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Disagree: "Batfleck" is just a nickname for this iteration of the character, and would be a more confusing page title. I think it should be left as-is. --WuTang94 (talk) 01:18, 20 May 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Requested move 15 March 2022[edit]

The following is a closed discussion of a requested move. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made in a new section on the talk page. Editors desiring to contest the closing decision should consider a move review after discussing it on the closer's talk page. No further edits should be made to this section.

Result:
No consensus. See no agreement below to rename these pages. See a pretty strong consensus on the Superman talk page that "Superman" is the COMMONNAME in that case. As is usual with a no-consensus outcome, editors can discover new arguments, strengthen old ones and try again in a few months to garner consensus for these name changes. Thanks and kudos to editors for your input; good health to all! P.I. Ellsworth - ed. put'r there 22:27, 22 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]

Here's a move reason I agree with. Placing this multi-move request here due to WP:COMMONNAME, which is the same reason for the request for moving the Clark Kent page to Superman (DC Extended Universe). And "Batfleck" is just a nickname instead of the most commonly used name, hence why I disagreed with the last page-move argument above.

See Talk:DC_Extended_Universe#Naming_superheroes for the full discussion. Also re-attempting this RMRP due to a procedural error last time. --WuTang94 (talk) 00:58, 15 March 2022 (UTC) — Relisting. — Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 22:15, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]

  • Oppose and reverse the Superman name change. The common name of the film version of these characters is not the alter hero / superhero name of them. As an example, Barry Allen was not even called "The Flash" once. I also don't really recall of Diana was called Wonder Woman, but even if she was, Diana Prince was clearly the much more common name. Editors need to realize that there is a clear difference between the comic book version of characters, which as the format expects, uses the superhero name much more often, and the film version, which treats the events as much more "real world". The characters themselves don't call each other by the proposed names and don't see themselves as them. They use their regular born names. Gonnym (talk) 08:02, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
If you have a problem with the way Talk:Superman (DC Extended Universe)#Requested move 10 February 2022, you can use Wikipedia:Move review. I doubt arguing here to reverse that move will go anywhere. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 12:50, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Gonnym, like Erik noted, I'm afraid it's too late to block the Superman page from being moved, as that discussion is now closed. Sorry, I should have pinged you there. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:32, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
As a follow-up and as Netoholic mentioned already, any editor below that supports "per WP:CONSISTENT" is basically making a false argument as the current title style is the consistent style. The only one not using it is Superman. If they argue for consistency, then that title should is the one out of sync. Gonnym (talk) 08:45, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support per WP:CONSISTENT. I didn't have a strong preference for Clark Kent (DC Extended Universe) or Superman (DC Extended Universe) as I could see arguments both ways, but if it is going to be Superman, I think the other articles should be moved too. Thinking about it more, it will be very rare for these personal names without ever mentioning their superhero names, and I think in common parlance, the superhero names are more likely to be recognized. While I did mention in the Clark Kent/Superman RM discussion that more than one person could have the superhero-name title, the reality is that we haven't seen that with the DCEU at this point, and we should not be WP:CRYSTAL balling about that. Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 12:48, 15 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support As I stated at Talk:Superman (DC Extended Universe) § Requested move 10 February 2022, all DCEU character pages should follow the same naming system per WP:CONSISTENT. I was opposed to the Superman name change, but since the consensus was to move said article, I support this new request. InfiniteNexus (talk) 04:32, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - Superman (DCEU) is the exception, not the rule. Its silly to invoke CONSISTENT based on that one exception. CONSISTENT is satisfied simply by Wikipedia consistently using COMMONNAMEs. For all these other characters, they are almost entirely referred to by their given names. I would support Diana Prince (DC Extended Universe)→Diana (DC Extended Universe) since "Prince" is really just added to create an alias in the normie world, not used on her island or among main characters. Also, the proposed titles fail WP:CONCISE since you have to add "character" to disambiguate from the films. -- Netoholic @ 08:13, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    I'm not sure what you mean by, "they are almost entirely referred to by their given names". Both names are used interchangeably by reliable sources writing about the topic, and I highly doubt you'll ever see the personal names without the superhero names. In addition, the superhero name is far more recognizable than the personal name. That's why the Kryptonian is at Superman and not Clark Kent, why the Dark Knight is at Batman and not Bruce Wayne, and so forth. A suggestion like Diana (DCEU Extended Universe) does not work because we need to think of the reader and what they have seen before. Are they really going to type in only "Diana" in hopes of Diana Prince the Wonder Woman in the DCEU movies? Erik (talk | contrib) (ping me) 12:37, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    What is true for the comic versions is not true for the film versions. Also, you have to stop thinking that readers find articles by typing in our search bar. That is exceptionally rare, as most people arrive via links provided by external search engines, which largely don't care what we actually title our articles, since they work via context and keywords. For those rare times a reader does use our search bar, then redirects will assist them. -- Netoholic @ 19:55, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: there is a degree to which the producers of both the MCU and DCEU properties have tried to ground their works more fully in realism, which includes the characters using their "real" names more consistently than their superhero names. Superman is actually kind of a strange case there, given that Bruce Wayne refers to him as "Clark" while Diana refers to him as "Kal", and his real real name is Kal-El, which is used with the least frequency. Superman is the only character with this type of situation (Diana is also called Diana of Themyscira, but still Diana; in the comics, Aquaman also has a little-used Atlantean name, but I don't believe that has come up in the films at all). BD2412 T 20:21, 16 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • General support for all and particularly strong support for Batman. They most often use their real names in dialogue, but that's in-universe matters. There's little reasons to use in-universe style in article titles. Everyone in the real world know these characters are superheroes. 182.1.117.47 (talk) 03:33, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Comment: Another point I want to bring up is one that @Colin M: brought up in the discussion to move "Clark Kent (DCEU)" to "Superman (DCEU)": We should also look at how reliable sources name the characters, as that was one of the deciding factors for the Superman page. For the most part, I believe that multiple RS'es refer to these characters by their superhero monikers:
-- WuTang94 (talk) 04:24, 17 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Comic articles are the lowest quality of articles. They don't even care if they have their information correct. When the Arrow was still airing there were many times when an episode review called an on screen character by a comic character when that character had almost nothing in common with that character. We, as in, en.wiki, should not make up names the producers themselves did not choose to name their creations. Jason Momoa is a version of Aquaman, but so far in the films, he really isn't "Aquaman". Same goes for Cyborg, Flash and Wonder Woman. They are just regular people in the films. Gonnym (talk) 17:03, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Aren't they constantly officially marketed with their superhero alias? —El Millo (talk) 17:12, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
To be fair, even though Barry Allen was never called Flash and Diana Prince was never called Wonder Woman within the DCEU, those are indeed the titles of their solo films. Cyborg is the only outlier because his movie's not happening, but before the Ray Fisher scandal his movie was supposed to be titled Cyborg as well. InfiniteNexus (talk) 17:34, 22 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Note: WikiProject Comics, WikiProject Fictional characters, and WikiProject Film have been notified of this discussion. — Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 22:15, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
Relisted to garner a more thoroughly discussed consensus. Reviewing comment: As it stands, approximately 4 users have commented in favor, citing CONSISTENT and PRIMARY, and 2-3 are skeptical/opposed, citing the realism aspects of the DCEU, and the unique features of the Superman case which preclude CONSISTENT. I would caution users that CONSISTENT is often interpreted as a temporal guideline, meaning as things change, they will likely trend towards a different use over time, even if it starts with one article. However, I would like to gain more input on this aspect of film vs comics vs CONSISTENT before offering any type of close. We want a thoroughly discussed/robust consensus to prevent more reverts and re-moves down the road. — Shibbolethink (♔ ♕) 22:18, 23 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose all and revert the Superman one. - Ok, so thanks to the CW's Crisis on Infinite Earths crossover, A LOT of DC properties have been shown to be part of the expanded universe/multiverse. Let's start with Smallville. That Clark Kent was not known as Superman throughout that series. Also, we treat all fictional content in the present tense. So it doesn't matter how long ago in the real world some media content was presented. That would also be WP:RECENTISM. And, however this is resolved, yes please have whichever format is not selected, to be redirects. - jc37 00:02, 24 March 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Support as per nom, WP:COMMONNAME, WP:CONSISTENT, and the sources provided by Colin M over at Talk:Superman (DC Extended Universe). Colonestarrice (talk) 20:29, 8 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
    Consistent with what? The 5 articles above are consistent with each other. The one sole article that was recently moved, isn't. Please actually read what the guidelines you use are. Gonnym (talk) 23:20, 14 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
WP:CONSISTENT stipulates consistency, and that is what I support and would have supported as opposer as well. "The title is consistent with the pattern of similar articles' titles" – is more of a logical convention than a guideline in my opinion; nevertheless, the point of this RM is to achieve just that. Colonestarrice (talk) 21:38, 15 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
  • Oppose - AFAIK, she is more often referred to as simply "Diana" in the movies. I don't remember "Wonder Woman" being explicitly used to such a degree. Personally, I agree with @Netoholic: that "Diana (DC Extended Universe)" would be a better redirect, though I'm okay with keeping it as "Diana Prince". Also, I know that they're different companies/franchises, but all the MCU characters seem to use their "civilian" or real names, as opposed to their "alter-egos". For example, Tony Stark and Peter Parker. To me, I'd prefer general consistency for all the cinematic versions of major characters from the DC and (by extension) Marvel movie universes. On a tangent, I also agree with @Jc37: and @Gonnym: about reverting the Superman one. Clear Looking Glass (talk) 22:10, 18 April 2022 (UTC)[reply]
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.
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