Talk:Brothers on a Road Less Traveled

This article was nominated for deletion on , 27 September 2007. The result of the discussion was no consensus.

Untitled comments[edit]

People Can Change is a major organization within the ex-gay movement. It is the largest non-religious, non-research organization that helps men overcome unwanted homosexual attractions. Most of the major ex-gay organizations link to it, including the National Association for Research & Therapy of Homosexuality [1], International Healing Foundation [2], PFOX [3], Evergreen International [4], Jews Offering New Alternatives to Homosexuality [5], Courage International [6], Positive Alternatives to Homosexuality[7] and North Star[8].

It has been discussed in several newspapers, including Deseret Morning News Article[9], Conservative Voice[10], and Life Site[11] as well as the Spanish Forum Libertas[12].

As far as importance or significance of People Can Change, it is well noted for its experimental weekend Journey Into Manhood [13] and its publication A M.A.N.S Journey[14] created by the co-creator of the weekend, Dave Mathesen, which is used by Evergreen International [15], and was presented at the 2003 Conference on Homosexuality: Current Trends in Research and Therapy[16].

Another significant contribution was its survey "Why Change? Survey of Men With Unwanted Same-Sex Attractions (SSA) on the Factors Motivating Their Desire to Change"[17], which received positive coverage in the Christian NewsWire[18] and negative reviews by Ex-gay Watch[19] and Box Turtle Bulletin.[20]

I believe I have shown enough evidence that this is a significant organization, with several outside references to the organization. Please give me time to incorporate this information into the article. Joshuajohanson 02:27, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Because of the references you have provided above, I have prodded the article instead, to give you the time to improve the article and incorporate the references you have given here. A ecis^Brievenbus 11:52, 26 September 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Press Release???[edit]

I noticed both the article by Marketwire and the one by Christian Newswire were called press releases and People Can Change was given credit for, not only writing them, but publishing them. Why do you think these articles are press releases? I see no indication that People Can Change wrote either one of these articles, and they definitely didn't publish them.Joshuajohanson 08:20, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

Failed Schoolastic review[edit]

I see both the Why Change? survey and the M.A.N.S Journey were removed with the explanation that they didn't meet scholastic standards. The inclusion of these articles was not meant for scholastic purposes. M.A.N.S. journey is the theoretical basis for Journey into Manhood. It is not meant to represent academias view on homosexuality, just how People Can Change view it, which I think does belong in an article on People Can Change. The Why Change? survey was just that, a survey. It gives you an idea of the people who attend People Can Change, not ex-gays in general.Joshuajohanson 08:33, 3 October 2007 (UTC)[reply]

New York TImes reference[edit]

The New York Times reference was removed stating it was advertisement. It was not an advertisement, but a regular article. I think the New York Times is a reliable source. Joshuajohanson (talk) 17:22, 15 September 2008 (UTC)[reply]

External links modified[edit]

Hello fellow Wikipedians,

I have just modified 9 external links on Brothers on a Road Less Traveled. Please take a moment to review my edit. If you have any questions, or need the bot to ignore the links, or the page altogether, please visit this simple FaQ for additional information. I made the following changes:

Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.peoplecanchange.com/root_problems_causing_homosexual_symptoms.htm
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.peoplecanchange.com/change/causesurvey.pdf
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.peoplecanchange.com/Root_Problems.htm
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.peoplecanchange.com/gay_change_solutions_overview.htm
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.peoplecanchange.com/change/causes.php
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.peoplecanchange.com/why_change_from_gay_to_straight.htm
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.peoplecanchange.com/
Added archive https://web.archive.org/web/20080121180438/http://www.narth.com/docs/weekends.html to http://www.narth.com/docs/weekends.html
Corrected formatting/usage for http://www.peoplecanchange.com/jim/holding.pdf

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Terminology[edit]

Brothers on a Road Less Traveled#Weekend retreats describes Journey into Manhood as a type of "experiential weekend". I'm not 100% sure what "experiential weekend" really means. "Experiential" is kind of an obscure word. I rarely hear it used in real life.

Should we write something else instead? Something more understandable to laypeople? And, if so, what should we write?

TealHill (talk) 16:05, 5 June 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Rewrite and update[edit]

I have just rewritten and updated this page. I note the following:

Some outdated/poorly sourced information has been removed, and updated information has been added.

Several reliable sources have been added. I believe that the page no longer needs to be tagged for excessive reliance on primary sources. Thoughts?

The section on North Star is not very well sourced. Furthermore, if it belongs anywhere at all, it seems to me that it belongs on North Star's page, not this one. I have tagged it for irrelevance. Thoughts?

I have added a section on the 2016 FTC complaint against the organization. SunCrow (talk) 12:56, 31 August 2018 (UTC)[reply]

This organisation is definitely providing conversion therapy[edit]

The article presents the organisation as not being a conversion therapy organisation, despite at least one of their offerings, Journey into Manhood, definitely being conversion therapy, as determined by court in Ferguson v. JONAH. In fact, even without the court case, it is clear that the organisation provides conversion therapy, even if they don't claim they do to avoid legal troubles. The article even links to conversion therapy when discussing how the org calls it "reparative therapy".

TL;DR - the article should be rewritten in its entirety to make it more clear that this organisation provides conversion therapy. Because it does. //Talya - My contributions - Let's talk// 13:53, 27 May 2023 (UTC)[reply]