Talk:British soul

British Soul entry

I have concerns about the quality of this article. I accept that some hard work went into it but it makes certain assumptions that are contentious. It mentions a string of artists who were influenced by soul music but who can't be described as soul singers ie.Tom Jones. It fails to mention a number of legitimate British soul acts such as Jimmy James & The Vagabonds (active in the 60s/70s), The Real Thing (a pop group yes but surely more akin to Soul Music than say David Bowie or Simply Red), Delegation (successful in the UK & USA) or Hot House (who cut one of the best British soul LPs . If one looks closely the 60s only produced a handful of soul/R&B records from England. There were more in the 80s with groups like Light of the World and solo acts like Junior the latter who had a huge no 1 in the USA.

There is a body of opinion that argues that Soul Music as a seperate entity was subsumed by other genres and I'm in this camp. The article mentions the British soul invasion - Some fine singers but its not soul music - that morphed into something else around 1980.

Just a suggestion but why not ask the author Clive Richardson to write an article or perhaps John 'Soul' Smith. They were around in the 60s and understand what went on. dorkinglad (talk)

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Wrong information on British Soul entry--------------

I agree. This article is clearly written by someone who knows very little about the Late 70s Jazz Funk movement in the UK.The author was most certainly not a Jazzfunkateer or a Soulhead as we used to be called. No mention of Billy Ocean, Freeze, Atmosphere, Shakatak, Second Image,The Ebony Brothers, High Tension, Imagination,Total contrast,The Uk Players, Linx,or David Joseph when he went solo... Incognito did not emerge in the 90s i have Incognito vinyl from the 80s just after they parted company with LOTW. We had loads of Jazzfunk/Soul bands in the UK. Commercial pop acts like Style Council,Culture Club, Phil Collins or the eurythmics are NOT and were never considered Soul bands.The idea that stuff like that would ever have been played in a 70s/80 Soul club Like All Nations, Gullivers or Gossips is frankly laughable. And how can one speak about British Soul without mentioning Rod Temperton? This Article needs to be re-edited

Soulhead1981Soulhead1981 (talk) 17:57, 14 June 2012 (UTC)

I don't think we should have pictures of on this page

I think its very biased and an unfair representation of other artists to have pictures of some but not others. For instance you have a picture of Adele not Amy Winehouse, a picture of Tom Jones not Dusty Springfield. I think this will cause friction among people as there will be some people who are upset that their favourite soul artists are being left out. Also you can't say which artist is more prominent, one can have higher sales another can be more influential, for instance Bieber has had greater sales than Hendrix but who is more influential. I propose we remove all of the pictures on this page that way we don't make out some are more prominent than others and that way we also won't get people changing them to being their favourite artists in future. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 86.161.100.117 (talk) 20:05, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

It is normal to have images on Wikipedia articles. The good article criteria states that an article should be "illustrated, if possible, by images". Inevitably it is not possible to have images of all the people or groups mentioned in an article, but that is not unfair, since having pictures implies no judgement. Incidentally, the reason that Tom Jones is here and not Dusty Springfield, is that there is a copyright free image of him from the period and not of her.--SabreBD (talk) 20:17, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

British soul in the 1960s and 70s

The emphasis on "blue-eyed soul" in the sections on the 1960s and 1970s concerns me slightly. I can understand that, with hindsight, Dusty Springfield made recordings that can be called blue-eyed soul... but, Tom Jones? Really?? He was certainly not considered a "soul" singer in Britain at the time - he was a pop singer with a big voice. As the text implies, what was considered "soul" in Britain at the time was almost exclusively (and almost by definition) played by black performers, including British-based Americans like Geno Washington, and black British (or Jamaican) musicians like The Foundations and The Equals. The first all-white British band that I can remember playing "soul" (or at least authentic R&B) music was the Average White Band in the early 1970s. If sources supporting this line can be found, I think the text needs a bit of tweaking. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:58, 28 August 2012 (UTC)

Inclusion of new acts that can't be classed as 'soul'

Hello,

The current chart success of groups such as One Direction (debut and second album both charting at No.1), Mumford and Sons (No.1 Album), The Wanted (debut top three single, top 10 EP), as well as solo acts such as Calvin Harris (No.1 single), Lauren Bennett (featured on No.1 single), Cher Lloyd (debut top 10 album, top 15 single), Alex Clare (debut top 10 single), Ed Sheeran (top 5 album) and Ellie Goulding (debut top 3 single) is astounding. That's just a few as there are many more. This is surely a new British Invasion (as quoted on One Direction's Wikipedia opening) and many contemporary articles.

I was wondering where this information would these be more fitting? An entire new page? On this page? On the 'British Invasion' page? These are historic times for British acts in the United States and could become a full blown 'third' British Invasion.

Thanks, let me know your thoughts.

Simonclark (talk) 21:51, 27 November 2012 (UTC).

I'm curious as to why you posted at this page? Are artists like that considered "soul" in the US? If so, it explains what was a mystery to me (a Brit) - the inclusion of people like Adele as "soul" acts. To Brits, "soul" means Otis Redding and Aretha Franklin, etc. How are these British acts termed in the US? Are they regarded as pop, rock, soul, or something else? If there are reliable sources calling them "the new wave of British soul", or whatever - clearly, I've no idea - then that would be a suitable title for a new article. Ghmyrtle (talk) 22:09, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

First of all - no Third British Invasion nor even an inclusion in this article without an overview article (not an individual album/artist review) stating so. --Jaan Pärn (talk) 22:38, 27 November 2012 (UTC)

Ghymrtle is surely right. Soul music was a 60s to 70 s phenomenon and as far as I am concerned there is no such thing as British soul. It doesn't exist. This article is just not necessarily I feel.

Dorkinglad (talk) 23:09, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

British soul act The Bee Gees - come off it! Dorkinglad (talk) 23:17, 16 October 2016 (UTC)

Decades best way to orgnaise?

Some some reason this article doesn't really seem to be cohesive. I think perhaps this is may be the use of decades to organise the article. Would it be better to take the headings from the main article links (British R&B, Blue-eyed soul to Urban contemporary etc)? This would still be largely chronological, but might make more sense as a narrative and be a lot more interesting to read.--SabreBD (talk) 08:23, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

As long as we have sufficient sources to back up these exact styles and we do not leave any important information out. Jaan Pärn (talk) 09:00, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

I think the problem is that so-called "British soul" isn't a cohesive genre - it's mostly a ragbag of British musicians who at some point have been tagged with the notion that they are "soul" singers. To me, including people like Tom Jones and Adele in this article is bizarre - "soul" singers were people who were almost all non-white (though I'd be prepared to stretch a point to mention Dusty Springfield, who at least recorded in Memphis), and who recorded in the 1960s or 1970s. David Bowie is one of the least "soulful" musicians I can think of. Is this definition of "British soul" a recognised genre in the US, because, as a Brit, it doesn't hold together for me? If that is the case, the article needs to make clear - as at the so-called "British invasion" article - that this is a US and not a UK perception of things. (And Sabrebd, yes, I realise you're from the UK!) Ghmyrtle (talk) 09:33, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

This makes it much harder to organise the article by styles, which will be always disputed. Jaan Pärn (talk) 10:01, 27 March 2013 (UTC)

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The Craig Charles Funk and Soul Show

I see the article states this at the bottom...

"Northern soul has also seen a resurgence in the UK and British artists such as Paul Stuart Davies, Johnny Boy and Stefan Taylor have contributed to its popularity in the present day."

...it is likely that the validation that needs to be found is contained within articles about/episodes of The Craig Charles Funk and Soul Show on BBC 6 Music.

References