Talk:Black belt (martial arts)/Archive 1

A black belt has to have a certain degree of skill! I am a black belt in Taekwondo and I must have a certain talent to get it! You can't just stink at something and be a black belt!

Oh yes you can. Belts mean nothing in reality. I am a nidan in aikido... and the rank means nothing. Habj 23:54, 12 Jun 2004 (UTC)

Habj is absolutely right. It's the same reason some of the guys I know with edcuational degrees are complete idiots. Same with many of those with IT certifications and whatnot. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 67.142.130.12 (talk • contribs)

It depends entirely on the art. Some give out black belts merely for spending time training and being a longtime student, or in the case of a McDojo, merely for paying for lots of belt exams. Other arts make it quite difficult to earn a black belt, and make them a significant accomplishment. You know of your own skill, and the value of a belt in your own art, but you must make an estimate or guess at the value of a belt in another art. For example, my own art, Kiyojute Ryu Kempo, makes it quite difficult to achieve a Black belt, I have been studying for 3 years and hold Sankyu, and am roughly two years (at least) from my black belt, but I know it will be hard earned and I greatly respect people who hold high belts in my art. On the other hand, I've known people who have studied for less time than I have at a franchised Dojo and been granted a black belt, and they know as much, or less than I do about the art, so I know to respect the value of belts from those dojo less. --Wingsandsword 20:17, 29 July 2005 (UTC)

Wingsandsword demonstrates one of the main problems with belt systems. A student almost always thinks that their art has real black belts and the cheap belts are in other systems. The only purpose belts can serve is to provide an easy way to recognize your relative rank compared to other people in the same system. Even that has problems because it leads to a snobbish attitude that you can't learn anything from lower level belts. I've been studying for well over 10 years and I keep learning a great deal from keeping an open mind in dealing with lower level belts. In Japan, to my knowledge, belts were developed by Kano as a means to apply modern education principles (ie. grades) to the curriculum. They generally focus on a checklist of techniques that the student is suppossed to know to obtain a new rank. They encourage students to study to the test. As such, they are every bit as restrictive as fixed kata. Martial arts aren't about techniques - they are about understanding the underlying principles, thus, belt tests generally don't focus on the one thing that actually matters. Still these checklists are good for kids who may not have the mental capacity to grasp the underlying principles. When dealing with kids, belts can make some sense. When dealing with adults, they make a great deal less sense.

Just a quick note, at my Taekwondo school they don't let you test unless they think you're absolutely ready. They're less tests than they are graduations, where the kids get to show off thier stuff to their parents. Black belt is the same way, except the graduation is a much bigger deal. But really the belts are just there to keep you motivated to improve. --zing! 23:03, 27 January 2007 (UTC)

Burce Lee considered belts to be something useless.

Erika Nagai does not even have a black belt.

Founders of brazilian Jiu-Jitsu

Carlson Gracie, although a red belt, was not one of Brazilian Jiu-Jitsu's founders.

Possible POV

Just like to get a consensus here... the last sentense in Advancement states that: "...none of this is meant to be cruel. All of it is intended as a sort of crucible: to burn away bad habits, reinforce good ones, and convince the new black belts that they are capable of more than they thought possible." Does this sound NPOV to most people? =) Dept of Alchemy 20:39, 20 May 2006 (UTC)

Also it seems to be focused mainly on Japanese martial arts.

Buzz, buzz, buzz ...

This article is filled with jargon and buzz phrases. After reading it I feel as ignorant as when I started. It needs a complete rewrite by someone who knows what the belt colors mean and can write coherent English prose. Assume the reader is a novice and knows nothing about the subject. —Quicksilver^{T @} 17:25, 24 October 2006 (UTC)

Cleaned out some of the hyperbole. I think its important to realize that black belt is not a rank. I wonder if this article should be merged with yudansha.Peter Rehse 04:09, 11 December 2006 (UTC)