Talk:Ben Jacobs (journalist)

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Biography

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Journalism

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Citation style[edit]

I created this article and added the first reference. It is my wish that all citations use {{cite}} templates and that authors be entered first name first. Thank you for your cooperation. —Anomalocaris (talk) 07:36, 25 May 2017 (UTC)[reply]

Ben Jacobs Bio Information[edit]

There's a lot of information missing that one normally expects to find in a Wikipedia Article. Birthdate, birth location, pre-college education, parent's information, etc... The "Journalism career" mentions in passing that Jacobs is Jewish, but only obliquely as a "side issue" with regard to some kind of "anti-semitic reaction" to the "Gianforte incident", which in terms of readability does not make sense. How does the victim of an assault then provoke anti-semitism? Nothing in the Article indicates that Jacobs did anything wrong. I think if the anti-semitic passages are going to be included, the Article should make some connection from "victim of assault" to "target of anti-semitism", and also from who, and in what manner. It just seems like the anti-semitism part is just thrown in there for no particular reason, and without connection to the assault. Did Jacobs do or say anything before, during or after the incident that might have provoked it? There should be some causal connection, or something. It just feels very disjointed.

Also the way the Header information of the sections seem confusing, as it appears that the "Gianforte incident" as part of Jacobs' "Journalism career". Maybe it needs to be this way due to a lack of other information. The Article seems very sparse. I also find it odd that Jacobs' ethnicity is mentioned as secondary "side issue" to the Gianforte incident, but is not mentioned where the of the "core" information should be. I'm hesitant to make changes as whatever I do might make it worse. Just mentioning it here in case someone more experienced feels like improving it.2605:6000:6947:AB00:403D:E24D:E465:4A0 (talk) 08:37, 28 October 2018 (UTC)[reply]

"Body-slam"[edit]

The assault on Ben Jacobs has been described repeatedly in mainstream media (Washpo, Grauniad, BBC, Fox, Independent, all of them really) as a "body slam". The incident was video'd, and the faked video is publicly available: [1]

As I understand it, a body-slam is a wrestling move in which one lifts one's opponent off the floor completely, and then deposits them forcefully on their back on the mat. It's a winning move, intended to force an immediate submission from a strong man. It would be quite a heavy attack for a non-wrestler to deal with; at the very least, he'd be seriously winded. He'd surely not be continuing to try to interview his attacker, without even pausing for breath. Here's a body-slam: [2] Of course, Ben Jacobs is no wrestling correspondent; his assertion that he was body-slammed is pretty meaningless, unless there is some evidence that he knows a thing or two about wrestling.

What I see in the video is not a body-slam - I see some amateurish and inconsequential grappling. Nobody is lifted off the ground, and nothing gets slammed - not so much as an earlobe. Admittedly, the video is crap, and incomplete, and it seems the audio may be out-of-sync with the picture. Perhaps a body-slam occurred later?

I'm no cheerleader for politicians who assault journalists; what's shown in the video is utterly unacceptable. But is there any better evidence that a body-slam occurred than that video? For example, is there 3rd-party testimony from someone who can distinguish a body-slam from (say) a overhead gutwrench backbreaker rack or a Slam dunk? Otherwise it's just Ben Jacobs' word, and he should have been out of breath at the time when he apparently uttered it.

I believe a Fox News reporter was also present; anyone know who it was, and what he/she had to say about the incident?

What prompts this question is Greenwald's [report] that Jacobs claimed that Julian Assange was involved with Putin. I want to know if Jacobs' reporting is as shady and untrustworthy as e.g. Luke Harding's.

MrDemeanour (talk) 10:31, 9 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

If Washpo, Grauniad, BBC, Fox, Independent, and other media describe it as a body slam, then the words we use in Wikipedia are body slam.--Tomwsulcer (talk) 11:14, 9 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

It's interesting to note that in the article on Greg Gianforte there is no claim (in WP voice) that any body-slam was executed. Trump said Gianforte executed a body-slam, but Trump is far from a WP:RS. It seems the Fox witness I mentioned was one Alicia Acuna, who said that Gianforte 'slammed him to the ground', which isn't the same thing (and isn't observed in the video).

So it looks like we have a bunch of so-called 'reliable sources', who are all parroting Jacobs' claim that he was body-slammed. There is no corroboration, as far as I can see, other than Gianforte's criminal conviction, settlement and apology - but those were for criminal assault, not for executing winning wrestling throws. No other witness confirms Jacobs' statement that he was body-slammed - not even Gianforte, despite Trump praising his manly wrestling chops.

I think the claim that a 57-year-old who doesn't look particularly muscular, and who doesn't appear to have any experience of wrestling, can successfully execute a wrestling throw that involves picking someone up and turning them over in the air, is a remarkable claim, requiring convincing evidence. Unless these 'reliable sources' can show any corroboration other than the word of Jacobs, I don't think we should rely on them. Please see WP:CONTEXTMATTERS: "Each source must be carefully weighed to judge whether it is reliable for the statement being made [....]". If the sources are just parroting Jacobs, and Jacobs doesn't know what a body-slam is, then they are not reliable sources for that statement. MrDemeanour (talk) 12:18, 9 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]

So the video is fake. I missed that - it looks like Gianforte. So all that's left is Jacobs claiming that he was body-slammed, and Acuna describing a two-handed neck grip of some kind. Sorry. I'd still like to know if this politician is a grappler. MrDemeanour (talk) 15:28, 9 December 2018 (UTC)[reply]