Talk:Balthasar Gérard

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Netherlands

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Money in modern units?[edit]

How much is 50 crowns in modern currency? RJFJR 18:56, 9 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Tortures[edit]

The description in the article of tortures and method of execution look like a bad 'fairy tale'. Could one provide a historically reliable source for all this? —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 62.131.127.26 (talk) 17:36, 12 February 2007 (UTC).[reply]

Also, the tortures and execution described here do not match the description as given on the William the Silent page. Moreover, William's lasts words differ between these two pages. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.214.50.158 (talk) 19:10, 4 June 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What's left to cleanup?[edit]

It's been on cleanup for about a year. What's left that needs to be done? RJFJR 18:56, 9 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Looks tolerable to me. I'll pull the tag.

Regards, Ben Aveling 11:14, 3 December 2005 (UTC)[reply]

This page, while relatively informative, desperately needs to be proofread. In addition there are numerous paragraphs that mention events without explaining what the events were (Such as in the first paragraph).

That and the English is still in a pretty poor state; proofreading remains required. Arnoutf 11:41, 22 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Rem POV[edit]

I removed some pov wording that pictured Gerardts as a kind of hero and especially his tortures as brutes. The torture (horrific as it must have been) seems fairly standard for those days. After all, according to the Dutch this guy had just killed their freedom fight leader (compare with an assasination of George Washington or similar); thus in Dutch pov the villain (Gerardts) received what was his due. (of course this should also not be the pov of the article). Arnoutf 18:36, 9 October 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Three shots?[edit]

If he had only one firearm, how did he fire three shots? It is not like they had revolvers back then. The flintlock was not even invented yet. --76.203.126.137 08:52, 10 July 2007 (UTC)[reply]

That jumped out at me on the first reading too. It's stated he bought a pair of pistols, so two shots are probable, but not three. I've added a ^{[citation needed]}. Pistols at that time were mostly wheellocks, they were no slower to load than a flintlock, but I can't see he had any time to reload. Yorkist (talk) 14:11, 10 July 2008 (UTC)[reply]

You are completely correct. I don't know who put 'three shots' in there, but two shots correspond with the info given at the museum and the amount of bullet holes still shown and exhibited there. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 94.209.153.249 (talk) 04:44, 25 October 2009 (UTC)[reply]

The first citation (Motley, John L. (1856). The Rise of the Dutch Republic, Vol. 3.) says "[Balthasar] discharged a pistol full at his heart. Three balls entered his body". Perhaps this means the pistols he carried were filled (each) with gunpowder and several lead bullets (or "balls"); he fired only one pistol, several bullets were expelled from the gun, and three of them hit Wilhelm? Therefore, it wouldn't be accurate to say "he fired three shots", but perhaps "he fired three bullets". rbp (talk) 16:06, 8 July 2010 (UTC)[reply]

He could have easily carried multiple pistols. Also, he could have had repeating pistols, which were proto-revolvers. 86.86.215.140 (talk) 18:04, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

He was carrying two and was unlikely to have had time to draw a third. The contemporary revolvers were applied to (full size) guns not hand guns, so that is unlikely. Some kind of double barrel design may have been possible though. Arnoutf (talk) 18:29, 11 November 2014 (UTC)[reply]

WikiProject class rating[edit]

This article was automatically assessed because at least one article was rated and this bot brought all the other ratings up to at least that level. BetacommandBot 10:56, 27 August 2007 (UTC)[reply]

First recorded assassination?[edit]

"...this may have been the first (recorded) assassination..."

Was it, or wasn't it? This shouldn't be too hard to find out. At the very least, it should read "this *was* the first recorded assasination..." Jrule (talk) 02:04, 17 September 2010 (UTC)[reply]

From the Wikipedia article on William of Orange:

According to a British historian of science Lisa Jardine, he is reputed to be the first world head of state to be assassinated by handgun, but William was not officially head of state, and the Scottish Regent Moray had been shot 13 years earlier.

Patronanejo (talk) 03:42, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

Reading that sentence the addition " but W was not officially head of state" is an addition that does not come from Jardine (and is hence unsourced).

What is an official head of state? The person recognised by an international union such as the UN (which did not exist at the time); the person accepted by his or her predecessor (in which case the overturn of most dictators would not lead to an official new head of state), the person having support of a representation of the population, the person holding the power in reality? William had the latter 2. The earlier ones were not truly possible during that time and age.

The Burgundian Netherlands had a certain level of independence within the Burgundian cycle. Its parliament was the States General, which reminded their overlord (the Spanish king) that the king had duties as well as rights towards its population. When the king answered by sending in an occupation power and started beheading important political leaders the states declared the king in default and voted the Act of Abjuration formally renouncing the king of Spain as head of state. William was then appointed by that same states general as Stadholder (regent) in the name of the states, making him officially the head of state, at least if we accept the authority of the states general. Arnoutf (talk) 18:03, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]

What premises?[edit]

It appears as though this passage has been edited beyond recognition:

On Sunday, 8 July 1584, Gérard loitered in the courtyard examining the premises. A halberdier asked him why he was waiting there. He excused himself by saying that in his shabby clothing and without new shoes he was unfit to join the congregation in the church opposite. The halberdier unsuspectingly arranged a gift of 50 crowns for Gérard, who, the following morning purchased a pair of pistols from a soldier....

To what courtyard does this passage refer? Whose halberdier provided Gérard with the 50 crowns he was unable to cajole from the nobles involved in the conspiracy? Patronanejo (talk) 03:14, 8 October 2012 (UTC)[reply]