Talk:Axel Merckx

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Axel Merckx Youth Development Foundation[edit]

It would be nice to discuss his youth development foundation, and work in the Bontrager Development Team - with several riders moving to Pro-Tour teams. Needed would then be a mentioning of its transition to Bissell as a title sponsor. [1] — Preceding unsigned comment added by 96.49.118.41 (talk) 20:12, 10 December 2013 (UTC)[reply]

How Tall[edit]

How tall is Axel Merckx? The corresponding statistic is mentioned on Floyd Landis' page. I thought I heard the commentators say Axel Merckx was the tallest rider in this year's Tour de France, so his height be be noteworthy.--SportWagon 20:44, 8 August 2006 (UTC)[reply]

Introduction: Jonkheer?[edit]

Axel Merckx is never referred to as Jonkheer Axel Merckx, so to start the article thus is setting poor precedent. We should reflect the normal usage. Belgian law (?) has nothing to do with it (there is no law stating that he should be adressed like that anyway). I would like references indicating that he actually is a Jonkheer or a member of Belgian nobility that is adressed as Jonkheer, and secondly that he is regularly referred to as one, before we start doing the same. If he is one, but is not regularly adressed as one, then the fact should be mentioned further down in the article, but not in the lead. If he isn't a Jonkheer at all, then it should be removed completely. Fram (talk) 08:22, 5 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

His father is Edouard Louis Joseph, Baron Merckx. Demophon (talk) 02:52, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Duh, I know that. Is he a hereditary baron, or a honorary? If he is a honorary baron, is his son a Jonkheer? And if his son is a Jonkheer, is he ever (let alone customarily) adressed thus? If he is a Jonkheer, it is a fact that can be mentioned in the article. To put it straight in the lead is giving it way too much emphasis and undue weight, as it is something that neither Axel Merckx himself nor any reliable source about him has ever considered significant. Fram (talk) 07:34, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Not a reliable source, but according to "Belgische adel" on Dutch Wikipedia, "De adeldom gaat in het geval van een persoonlijke adelstitel niet over op de kinderen of de huwelijkspartner. Zo hebben de kinderen van Eddy baron Merckx, Axel en Sabrina, geen recht op het predicaat jonkheer en jonkvrouw omdat Merckx de titel van baron ad personam kreeg." (rough translation: "Nobility is, in the case of a personal title, not transferred to the children or the partner. Thus, the children of Eddy Merckx, Axel and Sabrina, do not have the right to the predicate Jonkheer and Jonkvrouw, because Merckx received the title of Baron ad personam"). If you can't provide a reliable source which contradicts this, I'll remove the "Jonkheer" again. Fram (talk) 07:41, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Good question... To my knowledge, Eddy Merckx is taken up into the Belgium nobility with the title Baron "ad personam". This means that the title is not inheritable, however since he is taken up into the Belgium nobility his children will be "untitled" and have the honorific "Jonkheer" or "Jonkvrouw". See: [2].
I found two sources which states that this is indeed the case: 1) KRO, a Dutch National TV channel: [3], and 2) Liberales, a Belgium independent liberal think tank [4]. I don't know how valid both sources are. Both say that in most cases a belgium title is not inheritable. For example Eddy Merckx, Stijn Coninx, Will Tura are barons. Their children are also of nobility, but they don't have a title, i.e. they are jonkheer or jonkvrouw. Part of the text: Hun kinderen zijn in feite ook van adel, maar ze mogen de titel niet dragen. Ze worden dan jonkheer of jonkvrouw.
The Dutch Wikipedia is indeed not a reliable source: Version 22 aug 2007 08:51 (see: [5]) quotes: Zo hebben de kinderen van Eddy baron Merckx, Axel en Sabrina, recht op het predicaat jonkheer en jonkvrouw. Ze voeren geen titel, omdat Merckx de titel van baron ad personam kreeg. . This was for a long time the case. However, on 11 okt 2007 19:10 only one person, named Stijn Calle does make a change in the text: Zo hebben de kinderen van Eddy baron Merckx, Axel en Sabrina, geen recht op het predicaat jonkheer en jonkvrouw omdat Merckx de titel van baron ad personam kreeg.. This really remarkable, and I don't trust this change. Demophon (talk) 21:37, 6 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]
Thanks, but I read your sources differently. The first one indicates that even though nobility is patrilinear, both males and females get the title Jonkheer/vrouw. It is to me not clear that this counts for titles ad personam though. The KRO link takes its text straight from the (old version of) the Dutch Wikipedia (where the older text makes no sense: it is not transferable, so they do have the honorific?). The third one indeed agrees with your point, but I have no idea how reliable it is (it's a political thinktank).
But even assuming that he is a Jonkheer, I still dispute that it should be mentioned in the lead. He is never referred to as a Jonkheer, no one seems to give it any prominence or consider it important (logical, since it is his father who has been given a title, not Axel directly), so the correct thing to do would be to mention it somewhere (if necessary), but not to make it the first thing one reads in the article. Fram (talk) 07:45, 7 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

Third opinion[edit]

The personal view that it should be included in an introduction is fine for one's personal papers. However, Wikipedia is an encyclopedia which is pledged to abide by such policies and guidelines as verification and the neutral point of view. Such placement in this article, in the absence of reliable sources which affirm that view in the larger world, would be a violation of undue weight. — Athaenara ✉ 10:20, 18 February 2008 (UTC)[reply]

As per the third opinion here, moving the text about nobility to be the second sentence gives undue weight to what is a minor issue. Focus upon why he is notable first, such as winning an Olympic bronze and competing in 8 TdFs, just as the first paragraph focusses upon now. Thanks, SeveroTC 12:11, 10 March 2008 (UTC)[reply]

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