Talk:Angola/Archive 1

Old talk

An automated Wikipedia link suggester has some possible wiki link suggestions for the Angola article:

• Can link west coast: ... of the Congo|Congo-Brazzaville]] and [[Zambia]] and with a west coast along the [[Atlantic Ocean]]. A former [[Portugal|Portugue...
• Can link natural resources: ... former [[Portugal|Portuguese]] colony, it has considerable natural resources, among which oil and diamonds are the most relevant. The c...
• Can link national unity government: ...n of former [[UNITA]] [[insurgent]]s into the government. A national unity government was installed in [[1997]], but serious fighting resumed in ... (link to section)
• Can link cease-fire: ...onas Savimbi]], the leader of [[UNITA]] was shot dead and a cease-fire was reached by the two factions. [[UNITA]] gave up its arme... (link to section)

Notes: The article text has not been changed in any way; Some of these suggestions may be wrong, some may be right.
Feedback: I like it, I hate it, Please don't link to — LinkBot 11:33, 1 Dec 2004 (UTC)

Map

Cabinda isn't highlighted. Can we fix this? siafu 01:20, 29 Mar 2005 (UTC)

A controversy has erupted over the choice of map for this article. The two candidates are shown here, along with any others that other Wikipedians may choose to enter. Feel free to make any comments. The lower map may also appear in the corresponding Geography article for this country. Kelisi 02:14, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

I prefer the lower Kelisi map, --SqueakBox 02:53, Apr 2, 2005 (UTC)

A controversy has erupted? Where? I was only referring to the wikipedia standard country-highlighted map, where Cabinda is not highlighted (I've since left a message for the image's creator about this). As for the more detailed map, the one from the CIA factbook, though less detailed, looks significantly less messy. I reccomend we stick with that one. siafu 21:19, 2 Apr 2005 (UTC)

On both maps appears the same spelling error: it is "Porto Amboim" (ending in "m"), not "Porto Amboin"!--79.168.89.199 (talk) 11:53, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Angola motto

Is this really the motto of Angola? It seems to be a result of an old mistake [1] when some of the data for Andorra were copied here and the motto was never deleted? --Elephantus 23:10, 1 October 2005 (UTC)

I looked around a bit and couldn't find any confirmation for the motto outside of Wikipedia and its forks (there are many of them :-)) so I'll remove it. --Elephantus 10:25, 5 October 2005 (UTC)

Former Name

It said in the article that: "The country is nominally a democracy and is formally named the Republic of Angola". Shouldn't it be: "The country is nominally a democracy and is formally named the People's Republic of Angola"? -- G.S.K.Lee 10:38, 18 December 2005 (UTC)

• I believe that the formal name was changed from "The People's Republic of Angola" to "The Republic of Angola". I'm not sure when the change happened though. --Nathan Holland 15:20, 1 September 2006 (UTC)

• It happened just after the 1992 elections. Mascal4 21:53, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

• Sorry, it happened just before the elections, when in 1991 a democratic constitution was adopted. -- Aflis (talk) 16:59, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Philippe Le Billon

Not sure where 198.96.37.124 got the reference (LeBillon, 1999) from - his Ph.D. thesis? I think we need a better reference to the works of Dr Philippe Le Billon ...perhaps his recent book? Matt 03:06, 21 March 2006 (UTC)

"Origin and History of the Name" section

This section needs clarifying. I do not fully follow what is meant by "at the time of birth by the Portuguese." I think it might refer to a name that Portuguese colonists gave to Quimbundos Kingdom rulers when the rulers were born. But I am not sure. Someone who is familiar with the origin of name "Angola" should clarify this section. JackWilliams 22:57, 16 June 2006 (UTC)

population figure

What is the source for the population figure? (- 2005 est. 15,941,000 (61st)) Why is this figure so different from the Wikipedia in other languages? Portuguese: População - Total (est. 2004)10.978.552- Densidade 71º mais populoso French: Population - Totale (2003)10 766 471 hab. - Densité Classé 72e Dutch: Inwoners: 10,6 miljoen German: Einwohnerzahl 13.964.000 (Dez. 2004) Spanish: Población • Total 10.978.552 • Densidad Puesto 71º

according to the site of the angolan ambassee in portugal the popultaion is 12 million ... http://www.embaixadadeangola.pt/geografia.htm

• There has not been an official census of the entire country taken since 1960. Any population figures you see since that time are only estimates. Nobody really knows the population of Angola. --Nathan Holland 01:16, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

• Estimates for many countries in Africa are partially based on Demographic and Health Surveys[2]. The listed figure is from the UN World Population Prospects Report (for the year 2005). --Polaron | Talk 01:58, 29 August 2006 (UTC)

• To start with, I should like to repeat the statement above (under "Language"): "Forget about statistics. They either don't exist, or are unreliable because of technical insufficiencies, or have been manipulated." This being said, in my own research I have come to the conclusion that figures around 18 million are at present closer to reality - after the reflux to Angola and the return of demographic growth following the end of the Civil War in 2002. NB: See now Wikipedia in German, where - regardless of the figure given in the beginning of the Angola article - the text now accepts this conclusion. FWH --79.168.89.199 (talk) 13:29, 31 October 2010 (UTC)

Angola's diseases

Is disease a problem in Angola? Explain why please?

• I'm no expert on diseases or Angolan ones for that matter. But yes, Angola has one of the highest infant mortality rates due to many including preventable diseases. Malaria is a problem in Angola like many other places. This summer there was a Cholera epidemic. I don't know any figures but there were many deaths related to cholera. The summer of 2005 was the largest and deadliest outbreak of the Marburg Virus in the Uige Province of northern Angola. I believe the figures are around 350 deaths to the highly contageous virus. Because Angola has been closed off to the rest of Africa, AIDS has not been a huge problem until recent years. As people are crossing the borders they are bringing AIDS with them. Sleeping Sickness has also been a problem in Angola but i'm not sure of the current status. Hospitals and doctors are scarce in the provinces and healthcare is limited in Luanda, the capital. Education about the origin and causes of many preventable diseases can and does help the healthcare situation. Angola has come a long way and is continuing to improve. Why do you ask?

--Nathan Holland 23:34, 19 October 2006 (UTC)

I don't know why the question was asked originally, but I'm here because Work have a client who may take me for a year or so out there. Lovely!

If I get the work, I'll report on what our doctors inoculate me against.

A Karley 01:44, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

Proposed WikiProject

In my ongoing efforts to try to include every country on the planet included in the scope of a WikiProject, I have proposed a new project on Middle Africa at Wikipedia:WikiProject Council/Proposals#Middle Africa whose scope would include Angola. Any interested parties are more than welcome to add their names there, so we can see if there is enough interest to start such a project. Thank you for your attention. Badbilltucker 16:32, 20 December 2006 (UTC)

Middle Africa ?? Considering the generally low rainfall of the country, surely it's in the same climate zone as Namibia and South Africa ?? —Preceding unsigned comment added by A Karley (talk • contribs) 01:48, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

American troup backing?

Didn't we back the UNITA forces with more than just politics?--Loodog 01:43, 6 January 2007 (UTC)

Yes, the U.S. did. I've just been doing some research on the issue and the Wikipedia page is out of line with what's now known from the most recent documents. Check here: http://www.gwu.edu/~nsarchiv/NSAEBB/NSAEBB67/

My apologies for not doing the work myself, and possibly not sticking to Wikipedia posting conventions, as I'm not a regular at all. Thought I'd give a heads up, though. -AVH June 16, 2006

WE need to know more about angola and the community —Preceding unsigned comment added by Dikeledid (talk • contribs) 14:09, 4 November 2008 (UTC)

Portuguese language in Angola

Is it true that Portuguese is the most commonly spoken language of two-thirds of the Angolan population as claimed in the article ? I suspect those figures have been overstated (please add a reference).

Yes, I'm interested in this too - the map on the Portuguese language page is coloured in a way that makes it look like Portuguese is dominant in Angola. Is it really more commonly spoken than the Bantu languages? Joziboy 15:41, 12 July 2006 (UTC)

I've just completed a survey trip of 6 provinces in Angola, and our (rather unofficial) findings are that in Luanda, Portuguese is spoken almost to the exclusion of other languages, except in pockets of the surrounding low-class residential areas where communities of refugees from various areas have congregated according to background. In other cities around the country (we visited Luena, Namibe, Lubango, Huambo, and Kuito), Portuguese is still the most widely spoken language, though Bantu languages are also used. Sparsely populated rural areas speak Bantu languages predominantly, and in some areas Portuguese is not even understood by most of the population, though that is for a very small percent of the population.

For me, the most surprising element of all this was the cities. In other sub-Saharan countries, the Bantu languages predominate and the trade language is used just for trade. This was not the case in Angola. Portuguese is used in homes and among those who speak the same Bantu language. Anecdotal evidence may illustrate this: in Moxico province, the school system has recently added Chokwe classes to the primary schools, because Chokwe children are growing up not knowing "their own language." They only know Portuguese.

I'm not sure of the statistics, but they will all be just educated guesses - there hasn't been a census for decades. I'll look through my sources and see what they say.

--Danny Reese 16:21, 2 August 2006 (UTC)

About statistics, according to a survey in Tony Hodges, Angola: Anatomy of an Oil State as of 1996 26% of the population speaks Portuguese as their first language. Umbundu represented 30% of the population in 1996 though many of those most likely speak Portuguese as well. In that same survey, 42 percent of the children under 9 years of age spoke Portuguese as their first language. So that means today those children could be as old as 19 years. So Portuguese is beginning to become the dominant language, even over the Bantu languages. Kind of strange for Sub Saharan Africa huh?

--NathanHolland 16:21, 3 August 2006 (UTC)

As a Portuguese that was born in Angola I can assure you that the portuguese language is the dominant language by far and away. In some cases it might be a very simple form of it, but people will still speak it at home as if they were native speakers and yes, the government has started to encorage people to learn a second (bantu!) language otherwise there is a real risk of them disappearing in a not so distant future. Mascal4 21:59, 15 June 2007 (UTC)

Having done research in/on Angola since the late 1960s, I should like to help differentiating and updating the analysis. (1) Forget about statistics. They either don't exist, or are unreliable because of technical insufficiencies, or have been manipulated. (2) On this like on other issues, global statements have to be carefully qualified, because the situation in Angola is very much differentiated - by region, because of the urban - rural divide (more than half of the population is by now urban), according to social class/social stratum/ social milieu, education, religion (some of the most important Protestant churches, like the Igreja Evangélica Congregacional de Angola among the Ovimbundu, have been developing Bantu languages and promoting their use since colonial times), and ethnic group (see the spread of Lingala and French among the Bakongo, because of their links with Congo-Kinshasa). The concrete situations one discovers are allways a function of the combination of all these circumstances. (3)Overall, it is evident that the use and the mastery of Portuguese has been progressing. In this process, the less educated have been developing idiomatic particularities which, in most cases, are "incorrect Portuguese", by Lisbon standards, and seem to be invading the speech and writing of the more educated as well; for an illustration, see the way people are speaking in some of Pepetela's books. (4)Since colonial times, two trends have become apparent with regard to the use of Bantu languages. One is their slow, but by no means linear, erosion in the main cities, especially in Luanda. The other one is a standadisation and spread of the main languagues, which causes the gradual disappearence of the languages soeaken by smaller ethnic groups in bordering areas. A case in point is the "Umbundisation", i.e. of the (still ongoing) spread of the language (and certain cultural habits) of the Ovimbundu from the Central Highlands to the West and South-West, "swallowing" even relatively strong groups like the Hanya. FWH--79.168.89.199 (talk) 13:29, 31 October 2010 (UTC) I agree, but introduced a few minor corrections. Aflis (talk) 08:48, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

blood diamonds non!

It is unacceptable for Angola to send policemen to Zimbabwe to prop up the dictator's failing grip on power. This is in return for diamond mining rights. All efforts must be made to prevent this cynical exchange and allow Zimbabwe politics to determine its own course. Ex-Zim. —The preceding unsigned comment was added by 150.101.122.132 (talk) 04:26, 11 April 2007 (UTC).

There's more unacceptable in this article here:

1. "Almost immediately, a civil war broke out between MPLA, UNITA and FNLA, exacerbated by foreign intervention." "broke out" does not express the fact correctly here. The UNITA started terrorism against the Angola People as pure diamond mafia criminals and terrorists with help from the south african apartheid fascists and the well known U.S. CIA "Terrorist Advisors". You say "broke out", World War 2 didn't "broke out", too, the Germans started it. Soviets and Cubans came later to help MPLA, which has had always the majority support of the Angola People cause they suffered from UNITA mafia bosses and their clans.

2. "Human Rights Watch" or other U.S. "human rights clubs" are no useful source of information, they were heavily sponsored by the U.S. CIA during the cold war for the job of false accusing democratic socialist states. Authors here confuse democracy with their own western home country capitalist dictatorships. Splitting up the People in many confusing political Parties and confusing them with annoying show elections beyond people brain-controlled by capitalist media so the capitalists can rule like in "1984" movie nowadays is an old well known ruling method founded by the Roman Empire an is NO democracy in any way. BTW, U.S. lies propaganda about Africa and Angola started with that miserable Dolph Lundgren anti-soviet propaganda movie against Angola and continues up to day with the movie "Blood Diamond" showing EO (south african commercial fascists army) mercenarys attacking that "U.R.F" base (both mafia/terrorists and should rather be friends in this crap U.S. movie) with a Soviet designed MIL Mi-24N attack helicopter(!) in this movie, unbelievable! As usual a U.S. journalist and a EO are the heros and the black man suffers. Guilty as charged of terrorizing and robbering Africa and crimes against humanity are at least the following western capitalists companies: De Beers, Chevron, Rio Tinto Zinc and Texaco and many western governments, at first the U.S.A.

I won't edit the main article, since at least 10 chickenshit western intelligence agents will revert it every second. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Woprr (talk • contribs) 21:52, 31 August 2007 (UTC)

Chokwe

The article Chokwe says the language is called utchokwe, which is not the same as the infobox here says. --Eleassar ^{my talk} 07:43, 16 April 2007 (UTC)

See meta:Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Herero Wikipedia

If anyone here has any Herero language proficiency, please take a look at this proposal and at the small Herero encyclopedia itself to see what should be done with this wikipedia (keep it or delete it.) Keeping it implies more than a sentimental commitment ("it would be nice to have a wikipedia in every language ...") but also that it can be something more than a 10 or 20-article spam and vandalism trap -- and not just "someday" but in the here and now. (Otherwise, it may be best to delete it for now and wait until there's more interest in the future.)

I understand Herero is primarily a Namibian language but that it does have some speakers in Botswana and Angola.

Please do not respond here but rather at that discussion (meta:Proposals for closing projects/Closure of Herero Wikipedia).

Thanks, --A. B. ^(talk) 12:18, 25 May 2007 (UTC)

Proposed new flag?

I keep hearing stories about how a new flag for Angola was approved by its government, but has not yet replaced the current one; pending a new constitution for the county.

An image of the flag can be found here[3] .

Is this true, and if so, should it be mentioned in the article? Pine 21:40, 24 August 2007 (UTC) _________________________________________________________________*

I dont think it is true. What country would change such a good flag for one that looks like its been drawn on with crayons????? —Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.0.203.30 (talk) 21:31, 16 September 2007 (UTC)

Political developments in the North

According to the current (see sig) CIA Factbook entry, "note: FLEC's small-scale, highly factionalized armed struggle for the independence of Cabinda Province ended after BEMBE's faction signed a peace accord in August 2006; other factions have since demobilized under provisions of the accord, although the two main faction leaders have not acceded to the accord" ; I recall hearing something about Angolan politics having a significant change in the middle of last year, as a colleague was working there. Now he's back in the UK, and I'm proposed to go out there ... I'm paying more attention.

A Karley 01:56, 15 September 2007 (UTC)

npov

This article has seemingly been edited by portugeese right wingers. Also the 'angolan history page'.

This page says, without support, that the resistance to portugeese rule was caused by 'outside forces'. This is unsubstantiated assertion.

For example, Augustinho Neto developed his ideas studying in Portugal while talking with left wing elements og Portugeese people and people of the portugeese empire (macau, Goa, etc.)

Colonial society is not discussed at all. If it were, it could be seen, and this article should mention, that colonial angola was an extractive state.

For example, Neto was a black doctor, but he was one of only hundred of black angolans ever to even complete secondary education. He became radicalised by the actions of the right wing dictatorship in Portugal.

In Angola the government employed systems of forced labour, or indentured servitued which resembled slavery until independence. There was a poll tax, which the locals not having money - using only barter, had to to work off in manual labour.

Moreover, the dictatorship of portugal settled thousands of portugeese people in the 20th Century - at enormous costs. massive. And these settlers where the worst criminal classed who engaged in the worst behaviour.

The article says that angola was made part of portugal. but why? Because the UN was agitating for decolonisation and also because making it a part of portugal meant that the UN and other outside agencies could be prevented from interfering in the colony,

I haven't sourced this really well. It is the perspective of Amnesty Internationals' book 'Persecution 1961' (pubished in that year) which is, however, well sourced.

This article is in parts biased. Not academic. Not useful. very POV. —Preceding unsigned comment added by 89.240.35.105 (talk) 02:49, 30 September 2008 (UTC)

POV statement which couldn't be salvaged

I removed the following statement from the article, hoping that someone will rewrite this.

"Former CIA agent John Stockwell, who was stationed in Angola while working with the CIA, argued that the CIA murdered 10,000 Angolans by arbitrarily warmongering."

Reasons I think it's POV:

• "arbitrarily" - Please elaborate, and explain how this is relevant to the article
• "warmongering" - I think this term is rarely appropriate in an encyclopedia, and certainly not here. There are many other better words.
• The 10,000 figure isn't even mentioned in the article itself. So, if it's not important or noteworthy enough to put there, why does it belong in a broad article about the country?
• The 10,000 figure appears to come from his recollection. Since when do we rely one person, an activist at that, to be the sole source for a casualty estimate?
• The U.S.'s involvement is more of a side note here, and does not really fit in with the rest of the description of Angola's history. In another article about, I don't know, CIA activities in Angola, maybe, but not here.

Ufwuct (talk) 20:07, 18 August 2009 (UTC)

"treatment of environmentalists" section... lol

I've removed this section. It was one sentence long, and I hardly think that ONE (uncited, unreferenced) case of espionage charges brought against a possibly ideologically-driven "human rights" worker elicits a need for a section on "treatment of environmentalists". If anyone feels the bizarre need to reverse this deletion, please state your reasons. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Deadphonescell (talk • contribs) 02:04, 20 November 2009 (UTC)

Origin of the Name

What word is the word "Angola" derived from? I'm sorry I didn't noticed it from skimming the page, if it's there that is. Kostantino888Z (talk) 00:50, 27 February 2010 (UTC)

The name is derivend from "ngola" which is ~ "king" in Kimbundu. When the Portugueses established Luanda towards the end of the 16th century, there existed two Ambundu kingdoms nearby, Matamba and Ndongo. The Portuguese first used the term Angola just for Luanda & hinterland. Only in the 19th century the word was used for a territory which very slowly extended into the one covered by contemporary Angola. -- Aflis (talk) 15:21, 16 September 2011 (UTC)

Religion Board

Why do we need a board in the religion section that says how many people are what religion? The article plainly shows that the religious demographics for the nation are skewed/unknown. I'm removing it. --IronMaidenRocks (talk) 06:20, 25 April 2010 (UTC)

First Paragraph

There seems to be some ficticious information in the first paragraph. I'm not an expert on Angola but I can tell someone has been messing with the article. --Magneto10 14:51, 28 April 2010‎ (UTC)

Brazilian involvemente in Angolan civil war

The article states that Brazil was one of the countries that supported FNLA and Unita. As a Brazilian, I never heard about that, even during the military dictatorship in Brazil. On the contrary, the Brazilian military government was the first in the world to recognize the MPLA government, which surprised many, and Brazil kept good relations with Angola during the whole civil war. Also, I never heard about Portugal supporting those groups, unlike the United States and South Africa. —Preceding unsigned comment added by Basileux (talk • contribs) 02:07, 7 June 2010 (UTC)

Suggested article for "Further Reading" section

I am not a registered wikipedia user so I don't have sufficient privilege to add it myself, but I recommend for consideration the following article: Turin, Dustin R. 2010. "Major Development Challenges Facing the Republic of Angola: Completing the Democratic Transition and Making Government Work." Student Pulse Academic Journal 2.04. http://www.studentpulse.com/articles/223/major-development-challenges-facing-the-republic-of-angola-completing-the-democratic-transition-and-making-government-work

I should disclose that I am the author, so please review the article yourself prior to including. If you also agree, please add to Further Reading! —Preceding unsigned comment added by 65.96.233.56 (talk) 04:51, 19 January 2011 (UTC)

Mestizo - Mestiços

The wiki links for mestiços links to mestizo. Anyone know why? I suppose its the non-standard character.

I don't know why, but I know "mestizo" is Spanish, and "mestiço" Portuguese. And that in Angola "mestiço" doesn't mean what "mestizo" means in Central America! Aflis (talk) 22:39, 6 February 2011 (UTC)

Jonathan Worth

The section of Politics of Angola, it mentions that the current president is Jonathan Worth; I dont think it is. — Preceding unsigned comment added by FairfaxMoresby (talk • contribs) 14:47, 17 January 2010‎ (UTC)

"Health" section. Contradiction with article on Swaziland

In the Health section it states that Angola has the lowest life expectancy of the world. However, I got to this article through a link from the Swaziland "Health" section, stating that it has the lowest life expectancy of the world, after Angola. Sadly I don't know which country actually has the lowest life expectancy, but felt I should point out the contradiction. --83.84.31.30 (talk) 09:57, 15 May 2011 (UTC) Mattijs

Over time Angola's ranking in this respect has varied slightly. As a consequence, I have now given the text a more flexible wording. One side effect is that the contradiction you rightly pointed out no longer exists. Aflis (talk) 11:52, 15 May 2011 (UTC)

Culture

The fact that Portugal and Angola share the Portuguese language and a Catholic tradition is public knowledge and is laid down in the WP articles; thus no additional source is needed. On the ethnic background, the references in this same article seem sufficient. On the contemporary culture mix we have direct observation and literary sources (hence Pepetela), but as yet no documents or studies that could be cited. Aflis (talk) 17:46, 18 July 2011 (UTC)

Children of Cuban soldiers in Angola

I just reverted an edit saying that there was a "segment" of about 100 000 descendents of Afro-Cuban soldiers in Angola. I don't know where our fellow wikipedian got this story from. To start with, most of the Cuban military in Angola were white (or then very "light skinned"....). Second, "fraternizing" with the local population did happen, but not on a large scale; neither the Cuban command nor the MPLA were in favour. As a result, the number of children of Angolan & Cuban descent is unknown, but certainly very low: some put it at a few dozens, others at a few hundred. They are dispersed all over the country, are of all shades, and don't form neither a segment nor a group: they generally don't even know each other. Thus, please, let us not permit yet another legend to be circulated by WP! Aflis (talk) 17:00, 21 July 2011 (UTC)

Decolonization process

How is it possible that the section on the decolonization process is (a) blatantly POV, disregarding the abundant evidence existing, and (b) so utterly incomplete? I now introduced a few corrections, but considerably more work is called for. Aflis (talk) 08:39, 8 August 2011 (UTC)

Strange statement about language

I find the following statement somewhat odd: "Moreover, and above all, the proportion of native (or near native) speakers of the official language is no doubt considerably higher than in any other African country". Leaving aside North African countries, where the vast majority are native speakers of Arabic (I am assuming that the author of the article was referring to Sub-Saharan Africa), this seems to ignore Kenya and Tanzania. Admittedly, Swahili is not the first language of many (probably most) people in these countries, but the vast majority of people are at least "near native" speakers. Maitreya (talk) 08:43, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Maitreya is right on two accounts.(1)The statement in fact refers to Sub-Saharan Africa only. (2) As it stands, the statement ignores Tanzania, where the official language is Swahili (I confess I am not sure it is in Kenya). This said, the idea really was that in no other country the language of the colonizer, turned official, has become the "mother tongue" of so many - to the point that some have begun to launch the idea of "Latin Africa". -- Aflis (talk) 12:20, 14 October 2011 (UTC)

Cristina Kirchner support for Angola's dictator

Why is there no info about the good relationships between Cristina Kirchner and Angola's dictator? 190.51.134.105 (talk) 14:42, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Why should there be? That belongs in a far more specific article, perhaps one about bilateral relations. CMD (talk) 16:07, 21 May 2012 (UTC)

Early Portuguese presence

(1) When the Portuguese arrived in the 15th century, they did not yet settle. (2) From the 16th to the 19th century they had coastal settlements of varying size (Luanda, Benguela - but also Soyo and Moçâmedes), but did not try to occupy major portions of the interior. (3)The whole 19th century, especially the second half, saw military campaigns meant to occupy the hinterland as much as possible. (4) Effective occupation of the whole territory, outlined by the Berlin Conference (and afterwards adjusted in several points), took place during the first decades of the 20th century. This basic information has to be preserved in the text. -- Aflis (talk) 09:49, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

When did they start to claim the interior (whether or not they actually controlled it)? Was it just the Berlin conference, or were there moves before? CMD (talk) 12:41, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

The best record probably still is René Pélissier, Les guerres grises: Résistance et révoltes en Angola (1845-1941), Montamets/Orgeval: Author's edition, 1977. In the first half of the 19th century a certain number of military inroads into the hinterland were made, which also served to get a somewhat better knowledge of it. The territory controlled was somewhat enlarged, but around the middle of the century there was a certain lull. Claims were until then relatively vague as far as territories beyond "Portuguese Congo", the Ambundu area, Benguela & hinterland, the central highlands and the Southwest were concerned. In the second half of the century, pressed by the general "Scramble for Africa", Portugal resumed its military campaigns in Angola (and Mozambique) and formulated its claims through the Pink Map which not only outlined the proposed boundaries of both colonies, but also claimed a territorial continuum between both. The latter was refused by the Berlin conference, but the other boundaries were mostly accepted (although there were minor adjustments during the decades following the conference). In the 1920s a stage was reached in Angola when the territory was not only defined in terms corresponding to the "adjusted claims" of the Portuguese, but these had achieved "effective occputaion" of this territory (although in 1941/42 there was a - very limited - eruption of "primary resistence" by the Vakuval herders (see Kuvale language. Does that answer your question? -- Aflis (talk) 14:55, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Very well, cheers! CMD (talk) 19:17, 3 July 2012 (UTC)

Joan Ann

Would someone please add the missing lines in this article: "The Kongo State stretched from modern Gabon in the north outbreaks of infectious diseases. In April 2005, Angola..." Text is obviously missing between "in the north" and "outbreaks." — Preceding unsigned comment added by Joan ann (talk • contribs) 06:42, 2 April 2006 (UTC)‎

Why are there photos of moringa trees in Namibia on this page?

— Preceding unsigned comment added by 24.80.253.82 (talk • contribs) 23:37, 18 March 2011 (UTC)‎

Updating religion section

I'm not a usual Wikipedia editor. I tried to remain unbiased with my addition. I added "On November 19, 2013, the Minister of Culture announced that "all mosques would be closed until further notice" after stating that Islam is not a religion but a cult", from the source http://www.africanglobe.net/africa/african-state-angola-bans-islam-mosques-destroyed/ 105.236.222.3 (talk) 19:29, 24 November 2013 (UTC)

This claim has been reported by a number of other media outlets including the Daily Mail newspaper (http://www.dailymail.co.uk/news/article-2513388/Angola-bans-Islam-shuts-mosques.html) in the UK, the International Business Times (http://www.ibtimes.co.uk/articles/524955/20131125/angola-islam-ban-muslim-allah-mohammed-africa.htm) and India Today.(http://indiatoday.intoday.in/story/angola-first-country-to-ban-islam-muslims-mosques-demolished/1/326414.html). There have also been a number of media outlets who have suggested that the claims are false. Such articles can be seen in The Atlanta Journal-Constitution (http://www.ajc.com/news/news/national/did-angola-really-ban-islam/nb47M/) and the Israel National News (http://www.israelnationalnews.com/News/News.aspx/174495). This being the case there seems to be sufficient doubt about the accuracy of the original claims and I think the article should reflect that.RookTaker (talk) 22:29, 26 November 2013 (UTC)

Pages 104 and 105

Please see my reply here. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 15:55, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

Pages 104 and 105

Please see my reply here. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 16:15, 13 September 2014 (UTC)

More than half are Catholic?

According to the CIA fact book, where wikipedia gets most of this information, usually, it says only 38%. Whereas 47% are of indigenous faiths. Should be updated.

https://www.cia.gov/library/publications/the-world-factbook/geos/ao.html — Preceding unsigned comment added by 184.155.130.147 (talk) 18:30, 14 October 2014 (UTC)

On this point like on mANY OTHERS, THE cia fACTBOOK IS NOT A RELIABLE SOURCE. "47€ of indigenous faith" is simply laughable: although exact numbers don't exist, nobody in Angola ignores that people who adhere exclusively to "traditional beliefs" are today a small minority, while many of those who have become Christians still hold some of those beliefs. Aflis (talk) 11:44, 12 November 2015 (UTC)

"the Kuwait of Africa"

According to to the section on the [Exclave of Cabinda], it is known as "the Kuwait of Africa".

A quick search of Google shows that Equatorial Guinea is the African country known as "the Kuwait of Africa".

This sentence needs to be removed.

Here are some links that discuss Equatorial Guinea as this moniker:

http://www.thenation.com/article/us-oil-politics-kuwait-africa http://www.cbsnews.com/news/kuwait-of-africa/

Migration from Angola

@Ndandulalibingi: I'd like to challenge you to go to Bantu expansion and Bantu peoples and include IN THOSE ARTICLES the theory of the migration from Sudan. It is not the first time that I have asked you to do this, which you obviously ignored. Also please quote Papstein, Pélissier and the other sources that you repeatedly use and let's how it goes. It is very easy to get away with fringe sources on obscure articles, so let's see how these sources are viewed in an article of high visibility such as Bantu expansion and Bantu peoples, where a lot of serious experienced editors are continuously involved. If you make one more edit reinstating what I have deleted, I will call an admin to block you. So if your sources and theories are valid, please proceed anb include them in the articles that I mentioned. If the community accepts them, I will bow my head and accept them. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 18:16, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) Since you have appealed for the test, I will wait for authorization. This is an on going debate by sociolinguistic scholars and therefore it will help open up the stagnation. Ndandulalibingi (talk) 22:48, 13 May 2015 (UTC)

External links modified

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Whites in Angola

Recent edits have not only fiddled with the number of whites in Angola (1% vs. 2% or so), but also defined these whites as Africans of European descent. It so happens that this definition does not apply to most whites living in the country today. It could be considered as an acceptable designation of the colonial settler community and their descendents. Now, even among the 320000 to 350000 whites who lives in Angola in 1974, a high proportion were no settlers, but people belonging to the public service who were sent there from Portugal on a temporary base. After independence, due to the oil boom, many people who had nothing to do took up jobs in Angola as they coud have in other countries - and they consitute perhaps und third (or even half) of the whites living today in Angola, and who c an by no means be considered as "Africans". Aflis (talk) 22:55, 15 September 2015 (UTC)

Pronunciation of "Angola"

@Rui Gabriel: Fiquei surpreendido com a sua reversão. Para mim, "di" é brasileirismo. Claro que em Angola o "de" não é pronunciado à maneira de Lisboa, mas a minha noção é que se fica em geral mais perto do "e" do que do "i". -- Aflis (talk) 22:43, 13 October 2015 (UTC)

Pois é, Aflis, o que lá estava não era um "i" e sim um símbolo com o seu valor específico no IPA. O Aflis substitui-o por um "e", que também tem um valor específico no IPA, que não é a mesma coisa que o "e" usado na ortografia. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 01:24, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

@Rui Gabriel: Bem sei que o símbolo fonético que lá estava representava um som que, em linguística, é às vezes chamado de "i surdo" - mais perto do "i" do que do "e". Também sei que, quando é utilizado como símbolo fonético, o "e" representa um entre vários sons assinalados (em português e noutras línguas) pela letra "e" - concretamente um som breve e "fechado". É mesmo por estas razões que fiz a alteração no texto, e a observação acima. Abraço --Aflis (talk) 08:55, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Please listen to the words:

• "é o dia-a-dia de Angola" at point 01:03, where it clearly says d'Angola, here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=bSgYl9bYjGU
• "história de Angola at point 01:26, where it clearly says diAngola, here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMRdVg6i4ms
• "economia de Angola" at point 04:15; "extraída de Angola" at point 04:19; "tudo sai de Angola" at point 04:24, where it clearly says d'Angola here, https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=UMRdVg6i4ms

I could not find a single occurence of anyone saying "déAngola"/ "dé Angola" or "dêAngola"/ "dê Angola", but I am certain that you will be able to provide such examples. I look forward to receiving them. Um abraço, Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 12:22, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Bem, estas variações evidentemente existem - como sabemos ambos com base da nossa convivência com lusófonos de vários quadrantes, de Portugal e Brasil até aos PALOPs. E é esta convivência que nos diz que a pronúncia "dê Angola" (com um "ê" breve) também existe, mesmo se não houvesse registo audio. Toda a questão é então de saber qual é a variação que prevalece em Angola. Continuo a achar que é "dê Angola", mas posso estar enganado. Duvido aliás que alguém tenha uma base segura para afirmar a prevalência de outra variação. Mas há uma boa solução: nada impede que se indique no artigo duas (ou mais) variações usadas em Angola. Sendo importante excluir a variação lisboeta (ou bahiana...). -- Aflis (talk) 17:00, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

I am responding in Portuguese out of courtesy, because you addressed me in Portuguese, but I am including a translation for the record Caro Aflis, Então agora chegamos ao ponto em que fazemos as coisas por "achar" que são deste ou daquele jeito? ("Continuo a achar que é "dê Angola", mas posso estar enganado. E se ninguém tem uma base segura para afirmar, então por que é que muda (sem essa base segura)? (Duvido aliás que alguém tenha uma base segura para afirmar a prevalência de outra variação."). Então, resumindo, se (a) não tem uma base segura, (b) pode estar enganado, (c) está a editar a Wikipédia na base do achismo, sugiro que reveja os seus métodos. Sei que tem esse hábito de mudar as coisas na base do "mudo porque eu sei que é assim, e as fontes que se lixem", e bem sabe que isso é a mais pura verdade, como uma rápida análise dos inúmeros avisos na sua página confirma. Essa é a sua característica em todas as Wikipédias em que colabora, mas infelizmente não é assim que trabalhamos. E isso surpreende-me muito em alguém que diz que durante anos esteve ligado ao meio académico. Tolerei as sua visão paternalística para com o editor dos artigos Mbunda, que levaram o dito editor a ser bloqueado, quando na verdade você deveria ser bloqueado por o encorajar a persistir nos seus erros, em vez de o ajudar a aprender a trabalhar de forma condizente com o projecto. É assim que ensina os seus alunos? A ignorar os factos e ir inventando pelo caminho? O que aconteceu com o rigor académico e de investigação?

[In English] Dear Aflis, So now we have arrived at the point where we do things because we "think" they are this or that way? And if you say you doubt anyone has a solid basis to change it, they why do you change it (without such a basis)? So, to recap, (a) if you don't have a solid basis, (b) you say it is possible that you are wrong, (c) you are editing the Wikipedia on the strength of gut feeling, I suggest you review your methods. I know you have the habit of changing things based on "I am changing it because I know it to be so and to hell with the sources" and you know too well that that is the purest of truths, as a quick look at all the warnings on your user page will confirm. That has been your trademark in all Wikipedias that you work with, but unfortunately that is not how we work. And this surprises me in someone who says that for years was part of the academic fraternity. I tolerated your paternalistic worldview towards the editor on the Mbunda articles that ended up getting said editor blocked when in truth you should have been blocked for encouraging him to persist in his errant ways instead of helping him master a way of working in tune with the project. Is this how you teach your students? To disregard facts and make it up as they go along? Whatever happened to academic and research rigour? Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 21:00, 14 October 2015 (UTC)

Environment

Request for comments to create a chapter "Environment". This could bring knowledge together on the topics of "Nature", "Climate Change", "Environmental Issues s.a. water-, soil-, air-pollution". Angola is one of the few countries that didn't enter an INDC at COP21. --SvenAERTS (talk) 10:45, 9 December 2015 (UTC)

Recent claims in edit summaries

Please disregard the claims made by the editor in the edit summary to this edit. It is wrong on both counts. Mbunda was NEVER slected as a national language, it was picked as one of six to be included in a pilot programme to define orthographies for Angolan languages. The claim that the Mbunda are the most populous of the Nganguela group is either sheer laziness to look it up or pure disruptive editing. Let it suffice to point out that there are 135 000 Mbunda, while there 400 000 Luchazi. Rui ''Gabriel'' Correia (talk) 12:35, 15 December 2015 (UTC)

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