Talk:Alex Ferguson/Archive 5

Page contents not supported in other languages.
From Wikipedia, the free encyclopedia
Archive 1 ← Archive 3 Archive 4 Archive 5

BLP More citations needed

REVIEWED
WP:SNOW closed. ImmortalWizard, this is a case where you misunderstood the purpose of our tagging system. That's okay! It can be confusing sometimes. This article had a sufficient amount of citations (and footnotes). HOWEVER, I can see why you were under the impression this article was lacking. No one has updated the to do list in AGES. That is no fault of your own, but you have to use good judgement in these sorts of things. A simple glance could show that this article has a lot of sources. Some reasonable editors would (and did) say a sufficient amount to meet WP:BLP. IF in the future you think an article lacks a sufficient amount of sources, simply use the famous citation needed template NO MORE THAN THREE TIMES PER A GIVEN ARTICLE. This way readers can see in those reasonable circumstances that a statement needs sourcing, a reader can see plainly where exactly the article is missing them. This helps the next editor make the right improvements! :D


Thank you all for your patience with ImmortalWizard. –MJL ‐Talk‐☖ 01:28, 1 March 2019 (UTC)

The following discussion is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

I am tagging this article with this template because it is more than enough for just in-line cn tags. Most of the references are used as footnotes and note a lot of general references. Therefore, it is appropriate to use this tag. I briefly want to state here where ref required:

  • Under Playing career, last paragraph.
  • "It was claimed during the tribunal by St Mirren chairman, Willie Todd, that Ferguson had "no managerial ability"."
  • "The season did not go especially well, with Aberdeen reaching the semi-final of the Scottish Cup and the Scottish League Cup Final, but losing both matches and finishing fourth in the league."
  • "Aberdeen retained their league title in the 1984–85 season, but had a disappointing season in 1985–86, finishing fourth in the league, although they did win both domestic cups."
  • "Ferguson had been appointed to the club's board of directors early in 1986, but that April he told Dick Donald, their chairman, that he intended to leave that summer."
  • "That summer, there had been speculation that he would take over from Ron Atkinson at Manchester United, who had slumped to fourth in the English top flight after a ten-match winning start had made title glory seem inevitable."
  • "...he did eventually join Manchester United when Atkinson was sacked,"
  • Most of Appointment and first years section.
  • Some of The first league title.
  • Whole of 1993–95: Double win and loss
  • First paragraph under 1995–98
  • "Ferguson, interviewed moments after, said, "I can't believe it. I can't believe it. Football, bloody hell. But they never gave in and that's what won it." He and Schmeichel, the stand-in captain, jointly lifted the cup during the trophy presentation."
  • "Ferguson's decision to retire came about because he perceived his chances of winning a second European Cup as "imponderable." Age was another factor: reaching 60 acted as a "psychological barrier ... It changed my sense of my own fitness, my health.""
  • "On the night of Christmas Day, Ferguson shelved his retirement plan. His family convinced him to remain in charge of United; Cathy bluntly listed her reasoning: "One, your health is good. Two, I'm not having you in the house. And three, you're too young anyway." Ferguson informed Watkins of his u-turn the following day and resumed work at once."
  • "Ferguson described the second match, a 4–3 win at Old Trafford as "epic". "
  • "Ferguson anticipated his deputy would return – "Three months later, he was wanting to quit Madrid," and for that reason did not appoint a replacement. In the summer, David Beckham also moved to Real Madrid, while Juan Sebastián Verón joined Chelsea. United in the meantime rebuilt their team: Tim Howard replaced Barthez in goal and Kléberson, Eric Djemba-Djemba and Cristiano Ronaldo came in to bolster the squad. Ronaldinho might have also joined "had he not said yes, then no, to our offer". Ferguson admitted the signings the club made did not work out in hindsight: "We rushed down the path of buying in proven players – who we thought would match our standards right away." "
  • Some under Second European Champions League
  • There are many more which I haven't mentioned.

Please remove the tag after solving the issues. If you think I made a mistake, please let me know. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 21:28, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

With Beyond My Ken reverting my edit and Legacypac giving a warning for being "disruptive", I replaced Template:More citations needed with more appropriate Template:More footnotes. Thanks. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 22:40, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
I suggest you take it off too. You asked me for advice on my talk page, but you didn't wait for my reply, which I am still typing up. One thing I am suggesting is don't tag whole articles when most of the article is well sourced. Tag individual sections (like Manchester United) instead. In fact don't do any tagging until you read my response. -- MelanieN (talk) 23:00, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
LOL, I see in asking my advice you said "I leave it up to you", but you couldn't wait even half an hour for me to respond before going ahead and retagging. -- MelanieN (talk) 23:07, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
@MelanieN: you always have this misconception that I don't want to listen to your advice. I really do, unless it is not properly reasoned. In this case, I see no problem having the whole article tag. I think there are enough in line citations missing to have it. Now I am not not listening to your advice. I just want why you suggested that and explain elaborately so that I cannot do the same mistake twice. According to Template:More footnotes's When to use I see no problem using it here, unless you can prove me wrong.
No offense, but if there's one bad quality about your "mentorship", it's that you jump to conclusions too easily without assessing properly. Example, when I asked for permission to ask another user for help, another admin concluded that I wanted RFA, just because it was linked, and you also agreed. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 23:11, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
MelanieN I really wanted to wait half an hour. However, Legacypac warned me for being "disruptive" for just using the wrong template. I realized and altered with the much preferred one. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 23:13, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
You asked my advice. I spent half an hour composing a detailed response. If you choose not to agree with it, that is your privilege. I have nothing more to say on the subject. -- MelanieN (talk) 23:25, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

A page with 274 inline cites does not need a tag asking for more inline cites. I removed the tag and am now reading this BS. Legacypac (talk) 23:21, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Thank you, MelanieN for your proper explanation in your talk page. That was what I was looking for. That being said, Legacypac reverted my second tag which I was going to do anyways. According to your explanation, I don't need to tag articles if it's not that serious (such as nominated for GA), which is perfectly fine. One question though: How should I make sure the readers get that which content needs ref? Should I tag them in line for the readers?
FYI, I do think the miscommunication between us created a huge problem for which I am in ANI. I wished I should have explained it much earlier. I am genuinely sorry. Taking my diagnosis which I disclosed to you, I would suggest you to reconsider your opinion about me and show this message to everyone in ANI. I don't want to go there.
I hope you really did understand the situation. Thanks for your proper explanation this time. Otherwise, you are just telling me "don't do GA, FA", but why? I did several GAN review already and no one particular criticized my technique. Thanks, I hope you get it. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 23:32, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
The number of cites on an article doesn't necessarily mean no more are required. I would concur with ImmortalWizard that most if not all of the passages of text highlighted above could do with some evidence to back them up; at present some of it seems like editorialising which is probably unrealistic to avoid altogether but could certainly be improved upon. Since the general hatnotes are being (somewhat aggressively) removed, I suggest tagging the contentious bits of text individually. Crowsus (talk) 23:35, 28 February 2019 (UTC)
Crowsus thanks, I will do that whenever I get time. Apologies for misusing the tag. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 23:37, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

User:Crowsus these tags are being added because the Wizard is at ANi and he wants to redeem himself [1] Legacypac (talk) 23:48, 28 February 2019 (UTC)

Adam9007 thanks for the tags. An admin threatened me for block just because I tagged twice the wrong tags with lack of experience. THE NEW ImmortalWizard(chat) 00:45, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
@ImmortalWizard: In future, you should use the {{blp sources}}/{{blpunsourced}} tag with the section parameter on the sections, and/or the {{citation needed}} tag on articles like this. This clearly needed tagging, and the problem is serious enough to warrant demotion to C class in my opinion (it certainly doesn't meet the B class criteria). Adam9007 (talk) 01:02, 1 March 2019 (UTC)
The discussion above is closed. Please do not modify it. Subsequent comments should be made on the appropriate discussion page. No further edits should be made to this discussion.

edit request

for "We rushed down the path of buying in proven players – who we thought would match our standards right away" - see [2] — Preceding unsigned comment added by Anklewaist (talk • contribs) 19:31, 4 March 2020 (UTC)

What do you want changed? FluffSquad (talk) 17:18, 19 November 2020 (UTC)

Semi-protected edit request on 27 May 2021

change There have been claims that he suffered discrimination at Rangers after his marriage to a Catholic, Cathy Holding,[29] but Ferguson himself makes it clear in his autobiography[30] that Rangers knew of his wife's religion when he joined the club and that he left the club very reluctantly, due to the fall-out from his alleged cup final mistake. to In the 2021 documentary, Never Give In, directed by his son Jason, Ferguson states he was blamed for Rangers' loss against Celtic in the 1969 Scottish Cup final. He says “I was completely bombed out, training on my own. I can only assume it was because of Cathy (his wife) being a Catholic.” Lovelyjubbly02 (talk) 09:33, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

I have done an alternative re-write of that section using some of Ferguson's comments. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 09:57, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
I feel your re-write excludes important information. I believe his (or his wife's) most recent comment/s should also be included, especially the one (a direct quote) I have mentioned, as it gives a clearer picture of his time at Rangers. [1] Lovelyjubbly02 (talk) 10:34, 27 May 2021 (UTC)
Done. Jmorrison230582 (talk) 10:52, 27 May 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ https://www.heraldscotland.com/news/19330685.sir-alex-ferguson-truth-rangers/

Semi-protected edit request on 1 September 2021

In [[3]] suggest changing : Many of Ferguson's former players have gone on to become football managers themselves, including Tony Fitzpatrick, Alex McLeish, Gordon Strachan, Mark McGhee, Willie Miller, Neale Cooper, Bryan Gunn, Eric Black, Billy Stark, Bryan Robson, Steve Bruce, Mark Hughes, Roy Keane, Paul Ince, Chris Casper, Darren Ferguson, Ole Gunnar Solskjær, Henning Berg, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Gary Neville and Phil Neville.[245]

to : Many of Ferguson's former players have gone on to become football managers themselves, including Tony Fitzpatrick, Alex McLeish, Gordon Strachan, Mark McGhee, Willie Miller, Neale Cooper, Bryan Gunn, Eric Black, Billy Stark, Bryan Robson, Steve Bruce, Mark Hughes, Roy Keane, Paul Ince, Chris Casper, Darren Ferguson, Ole Gunnar Solskjær, Henning Berg, Ryan Giggs, Paul Scholes, Gary Neville and Phil Neville.[245] Two of Ferguson's former players have subsequently managed Manchester United. Ryan Giggs as interim player-manager in the final four games of the 2013–14 season,[1] and current manager Ole Gunnar Solskjær from 19 December 2018.[2]

I believe this is worth specifying because it speaks to Ferguson's legacy at Manchester United specifically, rather than on the game as a whole Vanteloop (talk) 16:58, 1 September 2021 (UTC)

 Done. ◢  Ganbaruby!  (talk) 06:55, 3 September 2021 (UTC)

References

  1. ^ "Van Gaal appointed Man Utd boss". BBC Sport. 9 May 2014. Retrieved 1 September 2021.
  2. ^ "Solskjaer named Man Utd caretaker manager". BBC Sport. Retrieved 1 September 2021.

Semi-protected edit request on 31 May 2022

I want to explain Why did Sir Alex Ferguson leave Manchester United? The reference is taken from https://sportsburnout.com/why-did-sir-alex-ferguson-leave-manchester-united/ Nitin Maurya 1508 (talk) 17:29, 31 May 2022 (UTC)

 Not done: it's not clear what changes you want to be made. Please mention the specific changes in a "change X to Y" format and provide a reliable source if appropriate. ScottishFinnishRadish (talk) 17:37, 31 May 2022 (UTC)
Retrieved from "https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?title=Talk:Alex_Ferguson/Archive_5&oldid=1208685050"