MediaWiki talk:Please-translate

Protected edit request on 29 June 2018[edit]

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Please create this page with no content (or however you make MediaWiki namespace messages expand to nothing), as it is not useful on the English Wikipedia. This message was meant to be used on non-English Wikipedias in which english text was added, but one cannot meaningfully translate text from English to English, so it serves no purpose here. {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 21:32, 29 June 2018 (UTC)[reply]

On hold @Pppery: please point to a link where this message is actually being displayed. — xaosflux ^Talk 00:48, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

Wikipedia:Village_pump_(technical)/Archive_166#Update_on_page_issues_on_mobile_web {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 00:55, 1 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I have blanked the message for now — Martin (MSGJ · talk) 07:52, 2 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

@MSGJ, Xaosflux, and Pppery: It appears the message is now hidden, but the surrounding brackets were not suppressed. So they must be coming from some where else independently. –Ammarpad (talk) 11:48, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
@Ammarpad: please provide an exact url to the page where you are seeing this. — xaosflux ^Talk 12:06, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
I have added permalink in my comment: See https://en.wikipedia.org/w/index.php?oldid=849489208#Consultation_on_the_creation_of_a_separate_user_group_for_editing_sitewide_CSS/JS At the beginning of the message you'll see stray italicized brackets () –Ammarpad (talk) 12:11, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

When I made this request, I had never seen the message inside of parenthesis; not sure what can be done about that, as the code is ({{int:please-translate}}). {{3x|p}}ery (talk) 14:13, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]

I saw you now removed them. I later learnt they're not coming from the software side, but were added manually by Tgr on Meta while drafting the message. The MediaWiki code is {{int:please-translate}} only, (without paranthesis). So anything apart from that will show up on enwiki. –Ammarpad (talk) 17:07, 9 July 2018 (UTC)[reply]
2021 ER

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Administrator note the mediawiki default value for this message is Please help translate to your language. — xaosflux ^Talk 15:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Pppery, Xaosflux, MSGJ, and Ammarpad: I think that hiding the message isn't the right approach here. The string is meant to be available on all wikis. The output of the string is meant to invite users to translate a text.
There are many multilingual users here, so there are use cases where it can be appropriately used in a local context (as in linking to a translatable version of the message). Rather than hiding the string locally, it would be preferable (per the principle of least astonishment) to correct users who incorrectly deploy the message locally (suggesting to them a parserfunction to suppress displaying it when the content language is English and it’s not meant to invite translations elsewhere).
Can we restore the default behaviour of this string? Having it blank is breaking the display of some messages where it is appropriately used. –xeno^talk 15:01, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

For what it's worth, my position on the matter has not changed since 2018, and I continue to oppose unblanking this message, as it continues to contain no useful content when rendered in English. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 15:04, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Xeno: can you help refresh us on this - where is this message not displaying now that you think would be an improvement to readers or editors? — xaosflux ^Talk 15:07, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
xaosflux: It will break a message that uses m:Template:More languages, for example (or, at least, the link that is shown will not carry a named label). –xeno^talk 15:34, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
^ My thought was that there are many multilingual users who edit locally that may wish to help translate such messages that carry this template when delivered locally. Xeno (WMF) (talk) 15:37, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
@Xeno (WMF): sorry my search-foo is failing, can you point to an example of where one of these is right now? — xaosflux ^Talk 15:41, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
My understanding is that it is being blanked to "stealth fix" incorrect (non-linking) usages like those in the examples above above. I don't think this is the way. –xeno^talk 15:51, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

That's a correct understanding of my motivations back in 2018. This message was added in the first place as a result of phab:T93782, intended to be the only translated (and thus understandable to a non-English speaker) content in an otherwise-monolingual message. That can't happen on the English Wikipedia, thus to me every use of this message on the English Wikipedia is incorrect. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:02, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Linked usage was contemplated in that request. –xeno^talk 16:32, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

More languages • Please help translate to other languages.

xaosflux: I manually removed the line ^ on delivery, but in future may wish to include it. (Other teams may be using the string in a similar linked fashion) Xeno (WMF) (talk) 15:47, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
That seems pretty reasonable to me....— xaosflux ^Talk 16:14, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

@Pppery: conversely, can you point to an example of where this message is being called - such that the blank is preferable? — xaosflux ^Talk 15:42, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Saw your one from the archive above, not sure who having such a link in there is going to hurt? — xaosflux ^Talk 16:16, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
It doesn't hurt anyone, per se, it's simply redundant and useless when rendered in English on the English Wikipedia. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:16, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]
Pppery: That assumes it's a non-linked usage and that ~~everyone visiting EnWp has their interface language set to En~~ the reader is monolingual (or considers English ”their” language).
What about "Please help translate to other languages." for the local en-us display? –xeno^talk 16:28, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

"Please help us translate this message to other languages." maybe - it is more of a call to action, makes it pretty clear what is being asked. Since this isn't used in article space ever I think we have a lot more flexibility with assuming anyone who doesn't care about it can easily ignore it. — xaosflux ^Talk 16:40, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Agree both proposed rewordings are better than the default text, still unconvinced of the value of the message in the first place, but it's of course possibly that consensus is against me. * Pppery * _{it has begun...} 16:43, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

One of the original intents was to attract more translations to a page, so hiding the display of the invitation is counter to the goal. Here we are explicitly breaking correct uses, to stealth fix incorrect ones. –xeno^talk 16:56, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

xaosflux: It may not always be a message, though. I suppose it could be used to ask the reader to translate another whole page, for example. –xeno^talk 16:54, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Gotcha, was just trying to find a nice compromise :) — xaosflux ^Talk 16:56, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Localization woes: I originally tried to use Mediawiki:otherlanguages as the first part of this template, and found that on Commons and Wikidata this outputs in English as "In Wikipedia" (and here, as just "Languages", apparently!). Xeno (WMF) (talk) 17:03, 5 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]

Done as Please help translate to other languages.. — xaosflux ^Talk 14:25, 6 November 2021 (UTC)[reply]