File talk:Syrian Civil War.svg/Archive 1

LIST OF SOURCES

• Holliday, Joseph (2012), Syrian War maps
• http://www.lemonde.fr/proche-orient/infographie/2012/11/28/la-situation-actuelle-a-damas_1797120_3218.html

Moved from English Wikipedia talkpage

Centralising discussion here. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 21:13, 13 August 2012 (UTC)

Border crossing details missing

This is a much better (and up to date) map than the current one used on the Syrian uprising wikipedia page, but could do with being updated on the borders with Turkey to reflect the regime's loss of control to the rebels. (sorry I can not do this myself at this time) Sans culottes 22:35, 25 July 2012 (UTC)

It would be good to have a separate colour for the Kurdish towns which are not FSA controlled by captured by the PYC. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 82.205.198.218 (talk) 09:27, 30 July 2012 (UTC)

The Kurdish are part of the Syrian opposition, which gets one color.–Spesh531, My talk, and External links 22:37, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Depends how you define the Syrian opposition. They appear to be neutral, and only took control after the government abandoned the areas. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 115.186.158.73 (talk) 21:08, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

A significant border crossing city that was taken by rebels recently was Al-Bukamal or Abu kamal. This city is about the same size as Salamiyah and should thus be included. - Goltak, talk

Al Bab

Al Bab is now under control of the Free Syrian Army. Sans culottes 05:50, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Qamishli

Qamishli is under Kurdish control. http://www.aljazeera.com/indepth/opinion/2012/07/2012730103733476503.html 67.176.85.95 (talk) 20:37, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

As well as As Safirah. http://middleeastvoices.voanews.com/2012/07/syria-witness-aleppo-braces-for-onslaught-from-assads-4th-brigade-69086/ 67.176.85.95 (talk) 20:49, 31 July 2012 (UTC)

Qamishli is not under the controll of YPG http://en.firatnews.com/index.php?rupel=article&nuceID=4997 — Preceding unsigned comment added by 85.227.182.211 (talk) 10:57, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

Rastan and Al-Qusayr

Rastan should definetley be in brown, in has been held by the opposition for a long time, all sources point to this undisputetly. With Al-Qusayr, it has been claimed by rebels that they have complete control of the city in an offensive last month so I believe it should also be in brown. - Goltak talk 05:50, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

On April 20, Syrian Arab Army advanced on Al-Qusayr, it can't be declared as brown any longer.

http://www.presstv.ir/detail/2013/04/22/299612/syrian-army-advances-on-qusayr-town/

Also, BBC reports that:

"So whatever Hezbollah is able to do in Quseir, Homs and the suburbs of Damascus is an increasingly vital part of the regime's military strategy.

Things on the ground are visibly changing.

Here, in some parts of Lebanon's north-eastern corner, both sides of the border are now, in effect, controlled by Hezbollah and its Syrian allies. They claim to be gaining advantage."

http://www.bbc.co.uk/news/world-middle-east-22369609

Even if it's by Hezbollah and militias, Al-Qusayr must go blue, entirely.

No evidence that Hizbullah or any other pro-government forces have entered Qusayr itsef. Even the Assad-cheerleaders in the report you provided from PressTV say that they are advancing in the countryside around it. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 19:52, 3 May 2013 (UTC)

---

There's another report, after BBC and PressTV reports, Lothar von Richthofen...

I'll repost here: http://www.newser.com/article/da6569vo0/syrian-troops-push-into-strategic-town-on-highway-to-jordan-as-internet-outage-engulfs-country.html

The Observatory reported heavy fighting in Qusair, a town near the Lebanese border under government siege. Rami Abdul-Rahman, who heads the Observatory, said mediation is underway between people close to the regime and some regional "elements" to make the rebels withdraw from the town although many are still rejecting to leave.

You should edit this to blue, it has the risk to right back to green...

Also, Assad-cheerleaders? Impartial? You should be, for this kind of edition. - Ctejerina

No. Part of being impartial is being able to recognise partisan sources, ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 13:00, 9 May 2013 (UTC)

Oh, it most certainly do.

But I've never posted Assad supporting links only. All them came with other media. Both claiming the same thing.

Second, the Syrian Observatory for Human Rights, and most of other NGO are on the opposition, and their claims are different from UN in some parts, which I guess is more impartial(or at least should be).

Also, I saw on the main article that the rebel claim that they had regained the Khirbet Ghazaleh city was given credit to. And the sources used... Well, it's really hard to go impartial, I guess no one is 100% "clean".Ctejerina

Al-Qusayr should go blue, at least now: In AFP: http://www.google.com/hostednews/afp/article/ALeqM5iFon7vbFmdoqv5ChHrlrmjvKE_Hw?docId=CNG.ef52166c95500e981197472a666a9e6c.61

And Terra(Latin and Brazil): http://noticias.terra.com.br/mundo/oriente-medio/exercito-sirio-entra-no-centro-de-quseir-reduto-dos-rebeldes,df71ac993f2be310VgnCLD2000000ec6eb0aRCRD.html

"Syrian Army reaches the center of Al-Qusayr" - Ctejerina on May 19- 2013

Russian naval base at Tartus

The media frequently talks about the russian naval base at Tartus. I think there should be a hint on the map about it. Like, an arrow or something. The base is basically heavily guarded russian soil and the part Russia played politically it should be marked. Opinions? 141.51.122.139 (talk) 14:29, 2 August 2012 (UTC)

When/if fighting gets near there we should deal with this, for now, I support keeping things as they are Nickjbor (talk) 17:17, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

City size

Raqqa is too big and Hasakah is too small in my opinion. I'm pretty sure Raqqa is not bigger than Hama or Latakia. I think in terms of size, Hama and Latakia are on a similar level, followed by Deir ez-Zour and Raqqa, then Hasakah and Qamishli. I think Qamishli is smaller than Hasakah too. I doubt Hasakah is smaller than Daraa, though maybe Qamishli is. And shouldn't Daraa be the same size as Idlib?

I'm basing this on the Wikipedia entries in English and Arabic, as well as on this website giving censuses from 2004:

http://www.citypopulation.de/Syria.html UltimateDarkloid (talk) 18:04, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Off topic, but shouldn't Damascus be blue? It has not been purged of opposition presence just yet. Clashes are ongoing. I think Douma, Zabadani, and maybe other localities like Harasta and Tall should be added and shown to be under siege, with Damascus proper being contested. UltimateDarkloid (talk) 18:06, 3 August 2012 (UTC)

Aleppo isn't under FSA control.

Someone revert that last edit. Intelligent Deathclaw (talk) 19:50, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

The situation in Aleppo is indeed unclear. Except that the image version of August 4 is quiet good. I think it should go to be the infobox image of the main page.Greyshark09 (talk) 22:05, 4 August 2012 (UTC)

Google Maps

Note that I'm keeping a Google Maps version of this myself https://maps.google.ca/maps/ms?authuser=0&vps=2&hl=en&ie=UTF8&oe=UTF8&msa=0&msid=214668381355121949879.0004c4ed0191c0333f79c 198.96.35.90 (talk) 17:15, 11 August 2012 (UTC) AKA user nickjbor/pellaken/thenewteddy. If you wish to be added as a collaborator, contact me at my wikipedia user account which I'll log into momentarily.

-leave a note on my talk page if you are interested. Nickjbor (talk) 17:16, 11 August 2012 (UTC)

Roads on map

Would it be possible for the map to show the major roads of Syria? Kind of like something like this? http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/File:Tripolitanian_Front-final.svg 23:56, 15 August 2012 (UTC) — Preceding unsigned comment added by Rukaribe (talk • contribs)

Add other cities?

Might it be possible to add the cities of Saraqib, Al-Haffah, Abu Kamal and Talbiseh? Saraqib, Abu Kamal and Talbiseh are under FSA control and strategic battlefronts. Al-Haffah, near Latakia, was a major battle. Those are the only large fronts that are msising here. — Preceding unsigned comment added by 84.24.43.183 (talk) 16:48, 16 August 2012 (UTC)

Kurdish controlled cities

I think Kurdish controlled cities should be in yellow instead of red because they are not part of FSA.Kermanshahi (talk) 21:02, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Important suggestions, please consider!

I have three important points to make.
First, The town of As-Safirah is NOT in rebel control, it is a bastion of Assad loyalists where the govt's largest chemical weapons stockpiles are located, so do you really think that it's in rebel hands? No, even the source that was provided by a random user does NOT mention As-Safirah in rebel hands.
Second, the city of Qamishli is not completely in opposition control, see this: http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKGos2QgaDg&feature=plcp I suggest to put the town with a blue periphery to show that govt troops/security forces are still largely present inside the city (but they are confined to their barracks)
Third, the main colors used on the map are very confusing. Since the opposition's flag has green as a prominent color, while the govt flag has red as a prominent color, the current map is very confusing. I urgently suggest that the rebel held towns be colored dark green (per their own flag) while govt towns be in bright red (per their own flag), but keep the blue color for conflicted cities.
Fourth and most importantly, the map is very incomplete. Many important towns/cities are missing. I suggest that all cities which are centers of Syria's districts be added. This will lead to the following towns being added:
Rebel held cities: Mayadin, Al-Bukamal (with a blue periphery), Jarabulus, Manbij, Atarib, Al-Sanamayn (with blue periphery), Izra' (with blue periphery), Ad-Dana, Arihah, Al-Nabk, Yabrud (with blue periphery)
Govt held cities: Tabaqa, Tal Abyad (with a blue periphery), Dayr Hafir, Shahba, Salkhad, Al-Suqaylabiyah, Mhardeh, Masyaf, Al-Mukharram, Al Haffa, Qardaha, Jableh, Al-Qutayfah, Qatana, Ash-Shaykh Badr, Duraykish, Safita
Contested cities: Al-Tall
To see these districts visit: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/Districts_of_Syria
If all these suggestions are taken into account in the next time you update the image, then it will become the best image to describe Syria's situation on the ground. Thanks and bye! Moester101 (talk) 08:07, 14 August 2012 (UTC)

deiz ez zor is in control of FSA, military are present on outskirts and bases outside the city byt can't actually enter.

Kurds

Given that the precise alignment of the Kurds is not entirely clear (they seem to be generally anti-Assad, but lumping them in with the "rebels" of FSA/SLA/etc. isn't accurate), I think that Kurdish-controlled towns should be differentiated. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 16:00, 17 August 2012 (UTC)

The colors have to do with anti-Assad and pro-Assad, its not grouping them with the rebels. Also, the fact that its not a three sided war, it wouldn't become a different color anyway. —Spesh531, My talk, and External links 21:50, 18 August 2012 (UTC)

Even so, the current colouration does group the Kurds with the rebels. I'm not suggesting that a third colour need necessarily come into the picture, just that Kurdish control be differentiated somehow. "Anti-Assad" is simply an overgeneralisation. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 05:00, 19 August 2012 (UTC)

Qamishli is still partly under Assad´s control,my friends! You must change the colour into blue. Sascha,Germany, 79.233.36.140 18:40, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

http://www.youtube.com/watch?v=wKGos2QgaDg

It´s a clear proof,Qamishli has not yet fallen

Sascha,Germany, 79.233.36.140 18:45, 20 August 2012 (UTC)

I repeat,that Qamishli is still partly under Assad´s control,guys. Please change it. I think,that so far the rebels, (arabs or kurds,no matter) don´t control any landscape,which is coordinated with each other. Therefore so far the map is not very useful at all. When the rebels gain real territory,like in Libya in spring 2011,only then such a map makes sense. Sascha,Germany, 79.233.36.35 09:20, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Kurds should be depicted as a third party in this war. Also map should be updated to reflect areas controlled by Kurds: http://en.wikipedia.org/wiki/2012_Syrian_Kurdistan_rebellion PANONIAN (talk) 07:22, 16 September 2012 (UTC)

According to the map in this article provided by the Wall Street Journal, the following cities are under Kurdish control; Afrin, Amouda, Qobani, and Derik. The article states that Derik is known as Al-Malikiyah in Arabic. http://online.wsj.com/article/SB10000872396390443862604578032381512705730.html 76.99.169.45 17:13, 6 October 2012 (UTC)

Misplaced cities

The position of a lot of cities is wrong.
Mhardeh is a christian city located north-west of Hama city....NOT in Raqqa province
Tal Abyad is almost on the border with Turkey, please raise it up.
As-Safira is a little more east of where you actually put it.
Qardaha is more to the east than where you placed it.
Homs is a little more south-west.
Douma and al-tall should both be moved slightly to the right (east)
Qutana (correctly spelled Qatana) is further south than where its placed currently.
As-Suwayda is slightly more north-east.
Hasakah is slightly more north-west.
Please see google maps/earth if any difficulty arises. But other than that, You did a good job Speshman! Moester101 (talk) 19:03, 23 August 2012 (UTC)

Few complaints, but...

The map has seen a general improvement over the past week. Well done! There are a few minor problems though, that should get attention:

1. Deraa must be bleu. The FSA has a presence in the city and controls at least 1 district of it. Also, army shelling - as is reported numerous times - suggests a larger part of the city is outside governement control (you don't bomb area's were your army is). 2. Mayadin in Deir ez-Zor should be bleu. There is heavy ongoing streetfighting, as can be read in the article. It's on of only three places in Deir ez-Zor were the army has a presence, but not total control over the city. 3. Maybe you could at Talbiseh, north of Homs. It's been under FSA control for some time and is seen as an important staging point for a rebel attack to lift the Homs Siege (as was spoken of by rebel commanders in Homs Governate). 4. Maybe Quamishili to bleu? The army has a presence, but it's confined to baracks only. The rest of the city is firmly in Kurdish hands, who also have armed militias.

But this was a great update!

Circles (Blue circles around cities and the like)

What do the boarders of the circles mean and why is that not in the key? Travürsa (talk) 19:45, 4 September 2012 (UTC)

Circles!

Exactly my question!

Well I did make it out, through some extensive Ctrl+F of this talk page, nevertheless for most ordinary people looking just on this map through the article page in Wikipedia, it should have been described in the key!!

Reo On (talk) 18:03, 6 January 2013 (UTC)

Sorry about that, it's been in common use on these maps since the Libyan war and I guess we all just assumed that it would be understood. It means that a city is under siege or surrounded by the opposing side. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 14:36, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Thank You for the response.

Yes :-), while I arrived on this page, browsing through the talk page flow - I had come already to an understanding what the borders might mean, and I did actually even caught up that it had been in use already before :-). So in fact, in that moment I could have just leave satisfied (I assume like many others). But then. I just imagined the throngs of ordinary readers of the Syria civil war page, who have mostly no idea where to go to see the explanation and who did not read the Lybia civil war page before this one.... (the same like me - I didn't)

And yes :-), In fact I was actually wondering from the start, if the circles might mean something like the siege..., however it looked quite improbable to me, so I had to check it up ;-). The other explanation were also coming up ,to me too, so without checking something like a key I was not able to tell. (And also I was wondering, if it would mean siege, why the circle is blue and not for example green or brown, I assumed if one force is in a siege of a town I would have expected the circle was in color of the besieging party and because it was not so, I concluded, that it is probably not the siege .. sorry if this is confusing, but I needed a key at that point)

So I just decided to tell You here and make a point for some ordinary, not-particpating folk....

Have a good time

Reo On (talk) 23:40, 7 January 2013 (UTC)

Mayadin

Mayadin in the East of Syria should be blue, as it is majority rebel held: [1].

Actually Mayadin should be put as rebel held, but with a blue ring around it. According to the article above, the "only part still in regime hands is an artillery position on a hill overlooking the city", that is not in the city itself, the city is now being shelled from a ditance.

Raqqa

interesting source talk about situation in the main city of raqqa [2]

Kafranbel

I think this city now is in hands of the FSA because the banners of the "Ocuppied Kafranbel" were very famous all over Syria, and now they have changed to "Liberated Kafranbel" banners.

Facebook page: "Banners of Kafranbel"— Preceding unsigned comment added by Wiki erudito (talk • contribs)

sorry,but the whole map is not showing the reality. The rebels don´t control all those small cities in central and western Syria. It´s still too early for such a map. We should wait for a longer time. As long as Assad has an airforce and artillery,the rebels don´t control anything.— Preceding unsigned comment added by 79.233.35.76 (talk • contribs)

Douma under rebel control

[3], there has been some recent fighting in Douma. A NY Times reporter went there and saw it was under rebel control and interviewed the FSA commander there on their srategy. Hopefully you guys can take note of this development and update the map. Thanks! — Preceding unsigned comment added by Zoorichter (talk • contribs)

 Done--Futuretrillionaire (talk) 01:51, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

Español. Falso, no hay imágenes o vídeos que prueben que Douma este controlada por los rebeldes. Los distritos y suburbios cercanos a damasco están controladas por el gobierno. Y si Duma (Douma) es controlada por los rebeldes cortaría el paso a homs y alepo, seria una gran victoria rebelde

English. False, no images or videos that prove this Douma controlled by the rebels. Districts and suburbs near Damascus are controlled by the government. And if Duma (Duma) is controlled by the rebels cut way to Homs and Aleppo. ReDvolucion (talk) 05:14, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

The reliable source [4] clearly states that Douma is controlled by the rebels. --Futuretrillionaire (talk) 15:38, 20 October 2012 (UTC)

'Reliable source' from previous comment is nytimes.com Hmmm. America took side in this conflict so their claims can not be acepted as true. Give more sources.

That source also states that Douma is South of Damascus. The current map makes Douma look like it is East of Damascus so I suggest moving Douma a little to the South on the map. 76.99.169.45 20:56, 22 October 2012 (UTC)

Yeah the NYT reporter is wrong about the location of Douma. Also, considering the recent massacre in Douma,[5] the subrub might not be fully under rebel control.--Futuretrillionaire (talk) 21:42, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Our article has Douma as being northwest of Damascus. Regardless, though, the WSJ article you just provided does describe it as an "opposition hub", so I think that it is probably under mostly rebel control. A blue circle would be a good thing, though. ~~ Lothar von Richthofen (talk) 22:37, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

Too Many cities, Map crowded.

I am wondering why there are so many cities in Syria on that map, it makes it look crowded, and i feel it is not necessary for most of them to be there. the Libyan map was clean and concise, not messy like this one. 75.155.32.241 14:43, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

In Libya, it was clear that the rebels controlled some cities and Gaddafi controlled some cities. In Syria, the rebels control a lot of the towns in the country side, while the government controlled the larger cities. Including the small towns make this situation clear. --Futuretrillionaire (talk) 21:35, 24 October 2012 (UTC)

I personally support the rebels,but i don´t think,that they will defeat Assad in the near future! As long as Assad has tanks,Artillery and an airforce,he will be the "strongman" in this war and even rebel-controlled cities like Rastan or Azmarin are under constant artillery-attack and are more or less under siege. The rebels don´t control anything at the moment,not even in the North!!! They are vulnerable to air attacks around the clock

Saraqeb

Saraqueb should be added and marked as controlled by the rebels [6]. --79.145.245.226 11:22, 2 November 2012 (UTC)