Draft talk:The New Order: Last Days of Europe

Need help

I need help writing this article about TNO especially sources and references AvailableViking (talk) 20:18, 5 May 2023 (UTC)

It would be nice if someone could help expand the lore section more

explaining the lore for people who don’t know would definitely help the article. AvailableViking (talk) 20:23, 6 May 2023 (UTC)

Help

Can someone help expand with more information for the sections also the article is in need of more sources and references AvailableViking (talk) 20:25, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

New Source?

Found a forum used for a dev log of the mod: https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/the-new-order-last-days-of-europe-an-axis-victory-cold-war-mod-for-hoiiv.430817/ if anyone finds info there you could add it to the article AvailableViking (talk) 21:17, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

nice, hopefully if we add more sources it will get approved Kingllama100 (talk) 23:07, 12 May 2023 (UTC)

Forum posts are self-published sources and generally should be avoided. I think this falls into where it can be used, but as a WP:PRIMARY source, it needs to be very sparsely used. This article must be mostly based on solid secondary sources, and right now the only one of those in the article is the Wargamer article. Student newspapers generally don't meet the WP:RS criteria. Finding more quality sources is key to getting the article accepted.

The current level of detail is probably too detailed right now - the challenge with articles like this is they are often written by enthusiastic fans to do what to put the specifics of what makes that mod exciting for them. That's not how a Wikipedia article should read though, it's a high level summary based on what secondary sources say about something. Ravensfire (talk) 15:09, 17 May 2023 (UTC)

yeah, id agree, i dont know what to remove tho? can someone help Kingllama100 (talk) 00:56, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

I think we should just finish writing what we have started on the lore section then we just need to condense it same probably goes for the other section on events AvailableViking (talk) 02:57, 18 May 2023 (UTC)

This series of edits - [1] - is an example of the unsourced fancruft I was talking about that doesn't belong in a Wikipedia article. Way. WAY too much detail. Ravensfire (talk) 14:33, 19 May 2023 (UTC)

I see what you are saying but considering the dense amount of lore surrounding the mod it is very much a oversimplification and even if it looks like a ton of unnecessary information i do agree it needs references and needs to be condensed AvailableViking (talk) 05:14, 20 May 2023 (UTC)

Wikidata page

https://m.wikidata.org/wiki/Q108903368

2600:4040:40A4:1100:8CA0:6B5:D8AE:E319 (talk) 02:56, 23 May 2023 (UTC)

Sources and references need to be added and the article as a whole needs to be polished

The article is lacking sources and more need to be scavenged also there is the already existing sources used in the article that need to be added to more references since certain sections are now lacking a reference The dev log here: https://www.alternatehistory.com/forum/threads/the-new-order-last-days-of-europe-an-axis-victory-cold-war-mod-for-hoiiv.430817/ can be used as a primary source since the sections written by the creator of the mod have information about how the mod was created and information about the lore itself as well as some of the gameplay features. Also the wargamer article here:https://www.wargamer.com/hearts-of-iron-4/mod-the-new-order can Also help add more references specifically about some of the mod features or about the mod itself. There can still a lot that can be done to add to the article so it can be ready to be accepted as a normal article as long as no more wikipedians who have no care for the preservation of information delete or decline this article. AvailableViking (talk) 19:43, 15 June 2023 (UTC)

There's still way, WAY too much WP:FANCRUFT and details here. Find what's in secondary sources condense. When the setting and events sections are twice as long as the gameplay in the main article, there's a problem. Yes, I get why fans like to include all of the details - hence WP:FANCRUFT existing. Think high-level overview. Nexusmods should probably be an external link at best. Vandegriftvoice.com is a high-school student newspaper, that's not a reliable source. The fandom link should be removed from the external links, replaced by the nexusmods link. You may consider asking for feedback on WT:VG - the talk page for the video games project where you can get some feedback from editors with extensive experience in video game articles. Ravensfire (talk) 17:24, 22 June 2023 (UTC)