Draft talk:If I Can't Have Love, I Want Power
Improvement[edit]
Is there really no way to get this album good enough to be published? It's a major release out in a few weeks, and has received a fair amount of coverage. Sergecross73 msg me 19:56, 6 August 2021 (UTC)
- I tried my best to get this to mainspace. I made improvements and submitted it twice, but it got rejected either way. It was discouraging and hence I stopped working on it. The reviewer told to re-submit when the critical reviews roll in, but that's just so late for an album article, in my opinion; there's so much coverage of the album, I don't understand the rejections. BawinV (talk) 06:16, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, I saw that too, and as someone who's been writing album articles for the last decade, I strongly disagree with the sentiment. Album articles can't be GAs before release, but they can certainly scrape by the bottom of the WP:GNG. To me, the article is already clearing the lowest bar. It's more developed than most pre-release album articles, and would almost certainly survive an AFD. Sergecross73 msg me 13:21, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Sergecross73 and BawinV: A lot of AfC reviewers are very hesitant about accepting articles about unreleased/upcoming music. In the past couple of months, I have been told different things by so many people that I have just given up on trying to distinguish what unreleased material is notable and what isn't. It also doesn't make sense how I could create an article in mainspace with ten sources about an album that is being released in a couple of months and it gets reviewed by a new pages patrol reviewer, but I do the exact same thing in draftspace and it gets declined by an AfC reviewer. I'd also like to bring Robert McClenon into this discussion, as they were the one who declined the draft twice. Dđ¶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 03:02, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
- This is why I prefer creating articles directly on mainspace. To be honest, I was saddened to see the article of this new Halsey album in the draftspace, because frankly, I don't like this submission-review thing, especially when the subject clearly qualifies general notability. BawinV (talk) 07:00, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, I am one of those AFC reviewers who is hesitant to accept articles about unreleased or upcoming music or films or anything. I perhaps don't understand why some editors consider it important to get articles about unreleased films or albums. Reliably sourced information about planned albums or films can go in the article on the band or director. In this case, as in other cases, the album will be released later this month, and I don't see why it is necessary to get the article accepted early. Actually, I do see a reason for wanting the article accepted early, and that is that articles on future films and albums can be used promotionally. I think that it is better for good-faith editors just to wait a little while rather than rush and push to get their articles, and so possibly be mistaken for conflict of interest editors. I have come to the conclusion that there are two main groups of editors who lobby for articles for future films and albums. The first are promotional editors, some of them undisclosed paid editors, and I would advise good-faith editors not to risk being associated with these sleazeballs. The second are ultras, enthusiastic fans of a particular band or director or studio. They are like the sports fans who are called ultras; they are overly enthusiastic and usually mean well, but can be rowdy. So, yes, I am hesitant to accept articles about unreleased anything. They are usually either by promoters, who are a plague, or by ultras, who just need to be more patient. Robert McClenon (talk) 01:39, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
- This is why I prefer creating articles directly on mainspace. To be honest, I was saddened to see the article of this new Halsey album in the draftspace, because frankly, I don't like this submission-review thing, especially when the subject clearly qualifies general notability. BawinV (talk) 07:00, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
- @Sergecross73 and BawinV: A lot of AfC reviewers are very hesitant about accepting articles about unreleased/upcoming music. In the past couple of months, I have been told different things by so many people that I have just given up on trying to distinguish what unreleased material is notable and what isn't. It also doesn't make sense how I could create an article in mainspace with ten sources about an album that is being released in a couple of months and it gets reviewed by a new pages patrol reviewer, but I do the exact same thing in draftspace and it gets declined by an AfC reviewer. I'd also like to bring Robert McClenon into this discussion, as they were the one who declined the draft twice. Dđ¶ggy54321 (let's chat!) 03:02, 8 August 2021 (UTC)
- Yes, I saw that too, and as someone who's been writing album articles for the last decade, I strongly disagree with the sentiment. Album articles can't be GAs before release, but they can certainly scrape by the bottom of the WP:GNG. To me, the article is already clearing the lowest bar. It's more developed than most pre-release album articles, and would almost certainly survive an AFD. Sergecross73 msg me 13:21, 7 August 2021 (UTC)
- I understand your point, but this feels like a wrong association. Albums by big artists gain notability before release, while albums by smaller ones don't. Also, an album's article is not just about the album's music alone; it's also about its background, the singles released before it, its making, and its promotional roll-out. Arriving to the point, Wikipedia only stipulates that a draft becomes an article if it qualifies general notability, and I see this draft qualifies. BawinV (talk) 06:58, 9 August 2021 (UTC)
- While you're free to your own theories and beliefs, that drives a little too close to "bad faith conclusions" for me. I'm neither a Halsey fan, nor do I have financial connections to her or her label, I'm merely an uninvolved editor who follows the music industry a lot, and am quite surprised to see a high profile album that's getting coverage doesn't have an article yet. It's concerning you don't see this as a plausible scenario. I know it's easy to get jaded - certainly I do with all the time I spend at AFD - but looking at the sourcing and tone of the draft (not particularly/overtly promotion) I find your reasoning for rejection...insufficient. Sergecross73 msg me 16:38, 9 August 2021 (UTC)