Draft talk:Clan Hunter

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Issues with the draft.[edit]

I don't know if this is the correct place to post this. I'm no expert in how Wikipedia works, but reading through the draft I can see problems in merging it with the existing article as there will be at least a few direct contradictions.

For example, the Clan should not be listed as a Lowland Clan. That is not accurate. It's historical Clan lands, presence, sphere of influence etc. straddled the Highland Line. A great many Clan maps - including that of Sir Iain Moncrieffe of that Ilk and even the very Wikipedia article that is linked to at the beginning of the Clan Hunter article (Scottish Clans) show maps with the Hunters marked as a Highland Clan with a distinct presence on Arran. This is not an error. Hunter lands included territory on Arran itself, Eilean MoLaise, the little Cumbrae and Great Cumbrae including Millport, and likely Bute itself. This Island presence brought the Hunters into conflict with the attacking Norsemen, and led to an alliance with the more powerful Stuarts of Bute, which is why the Stuarts list the Hunters as a sept of their Clan, as well as the Hunters being a Clan in their own right. This, as said, places the Clan Hunter on both sides of the Highland line and firmly in the Gaelic world, in which the Hunters moved (Arran itself remained Gaelic speaking until the 20th century). The Clan castle may be in Ayrshire, but it is the historical Clan territory which determines its region or whether it is Highland or Lowland - or in the case of Clan Hunter, both. We are the Clann an t-Sealgair. It's also right that our Gaelic name - the name by which the Hunters in Arran and the other islands would have been known and have known themselves - remain as it is in the article. The Hunters are spread across the Lowlands and Highlands. It is a disrespect to many of the name Hunter - Mac an t-Sealgsair - to limit us to the Lowlands and omit the Clan's Highland History, especially as the Clan has in modern times drawn support from all Hunters, from all parts of Scotland and beyond. If it is to do that, then those Hunters whose connection is Highland cannot be expected to continue to support the Hunters of Hunterston if it will not represent them or respect it's own cybercrime to them. The Clan Hunter has a rare opportunity through its history and place in the West coast to represent both sides of the Highland line and both the Scots and Gaelic culture and language.

The draft is, in all, too Lowland focused, speaking for example, of many Lowland families having Norman origins. In fact, many of the greatest Highland clans have Norman origins too, so what really is the point of this comment?

I'll leave it there for now, but I am certainly against replacing the present article with this draft. Calbannach (talk) 02:19, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Correction of above. Cybercrime? Lol. Predictive text. The paragraph was supposed to read something like:

"If it is to do that, then those Hunters whose connection is Highland cannot be expected to continue to support the Hunters of Hunterston, if the Clan will not represent them or respect it's connection to them by acknowledging it's own documented Highland History". Calbannach (talk) 02:28, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]

Calbannach, I am steadfastly neutral in this discussion, having placed the merge suggestion for discussion only as an interested observer. I think he correct place for this is in Talk:Clan Hunter § Request to merge from Draft:Clan Hunter. I will make the presumption of copying it their on your behalf, labelled Oppose merge Fiddle Faddle 13:18, 5 October 2020 (UTC)[reply]