Draft talk:Ben Leeds Carson

correction to deletion note

correction - this draft was not nominated for deletion in July; it is brand new as of late September 2023. This draft is about 1/3 as long as what was deleted, and makes use of about 1/2 as many sources. I fully understood the spirit of the earlier removal/deletion (in which sources from the website of Carson's employer, UCSC were misunderstood to be "student" publications) was that the degree of detail about Carson that was cited to a non-independent source, was improper by Wikipedia's standards. The current draft is far less detailed, and does not rely on any University websites. This draft contains very little of the earlier material, and even what little information remains from the earlier draft has been heavily revised.

Carson is notable because his work has been discussed extensively in multiple peer-reviewed academic journals (Empirical Musicology, Open Space) and in major, flagship books on experimental music (from Oxford Press), and because his music has been played on PRI/NPR, and at major venues, like REDCAT in LA (documented briefly in the LA Times) and featured in limited series at the Smithsonian (documented on the Smithsonian's website). These sources of notability are independent, reliable, and high-profile, and more importantly, they are independent *of one another*; i.e. they are not all "part of the same club", as is often the case in recognitions of experimental composers. I look forward to your expert feedback, hoping to better understand Wikipedia standards prior to writing articles about other notable composers.

replying to the standards of reliability, neutrality, etc.

The reliable sources of this article that /extensively/ discuss the subject are:

1. The Open Space Magazine, a peer-reviewed and internationally distributed journal of experimental music
2. Empirical Musicology, a peer-reviewed and internationally distributed journal of music theory and music perception
3. Public Radio International's The World, broadcast internationally on PRI/PRX and NPR, where Carson is interviewed, and his music is played.
4. The British and International Bass Forum, which is not peer reviewed, but depends on a reputation of objectivity

The reliable sources of this article that discuss the subject in less detail, but /affirm significant accomplishment/ are:

1. Los Angeles Times
2. An Oxford University Press book that is a flagship reference on music cognition
3. The website of the Smithsonian Institution, where Carson's music was featured in a major series.

The latter two sources do not extensively discuss the subject, but the article does not suggest anything to that effect.

I also think it's important to consider that all seven of these sources are independent not only of Carson, but -of one another- ... which is to say, they aren't just the same small community of collaborators amplifying one another, as is the case in MANY articles about avant garde composers - they seem important due to a range of publications, but often all the publications have the same editor, and the impression of noteworthiness is generated within a tight social circle. Carson's music being praised by Richard Barrett is unrelated to his being featured at the Smithsonian, which is unrelated to peer review at Oxford, which is unrelated to the other two peer review sources, which are also unrelated to one another. The overall picture of -independence- is much stronger for this composer than for many others who are featured on Wikipedia.

Two other sources of this article are the Journal of New Music Research (JNMR) and Sideband Records. JNMR is an internationally distributed, independent, and peer-reviewed journal in which Carson's experimental work is documented. Sideband Records is a record company run at Northwestern University in Chicago, and its board of directors includes a Pulitzer Prize winning composer and other notable figures. It is a highly selective, independent, and reliable source, the equivalent of citing a publisher's website for information about a notable author.

Nadibautista (talk) 18:33, 26 September 2023 (UTC)