File talk:Holocaust survivors, Kielce, 1946.jpg

Are you sure all these people lived at Planty Street 8, Kielce, Poland? I doubt it... In other words, the caption is quite POV Halibu tt 17:05, August 2, 2005 (UTC)

I concur with Halibutt and so have removed the image from History of Poland (1945-1989) article, as that article will soon be featured on the main page and thus demands the highest quality. Could the uploader please provide some source information for the image that would justify the caption? Balcer 06:31, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

OOC, what it the reason for your doubts? --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 14:08, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

If I recall correctly, there were no Jewish children in the house at Planty Street 8 where the pogrom could place. Hence the fact that the picture contains children described as "survivors" of the pogrom is puzzling, and possibly misleading. Unless of course this is a picture of other Jews from Kielce, who were not directly attacked in the pogrom, but who still might be considered its survivors. Still, I am not going to argue with a caption by Yad Vashem. Balcer 15:59, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I uploaded the image, it is labelled as "Survivors of the Kielce pogrom await their transfer out of Poland – Kielce, Poland, summer of 1946" at Yad Vashem. I don't think there is any reason to challenge Yad Vashem's captioning as not being of "the highest quality", unless you have some specific objection. --Goodoldpolonius2 14:30, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

My specific objection is that according to what I read, there were some 15 surviving inhabitants of Planty Street 8 house. Yet, this photo shows some 30 people altogether, which means that these might've been just some random people, connected to the Kielce Pogrom only by the author of the Yad Vashem article. I don't see any other explanation. Also, from what I read the survivors (one of them was my grandma's neighbour, BTW) were not depatriated in large groups as the commie authorities preferred to conceal the cooperation with Jewish organizations. Halibu tt 06:20, 18 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Possible copyright problem[edit]

I added the link to the Yad Vashem source page below the image. However, now I am worried about the copyright. Here is what the rules set by Yad Vashem say:

Permission for use of photographic imagery in this database is granted only under the following conditions: The publication of each image should be accompanied by the following credit:

Courtesy of Yad Vashem The Holocaust Martyrs' and Heroes' Remembrance Authority

Unauthorized publication is prohibited.

Disclaimer:

These images may be reproduced only with the written consent of Yad Vashem. All reproductions must be credited to Yad Vashem.

I will try to track down the original source, since it is not Yad Vashem. At the same time, you linked to the wrong terms, the right ones are here. They explicitly allow fair use:

Fair use of copyrighted material includes the use of protected materials for non-commercial educational purposes, such as teaching, scholarship and research. Unless otherwise noted, users who wish to download or print text and image files from this Web site for such uses may do so without Yad Vashem’s express permission, provided that they comply with the following conditions:

The content may only be used for personal, educational or noncommercial purposes;
Users must cite the author and source of the content as they would material from any printed work;
The citation must include all copyright information and other information associated with the content and the URL for Yad Vashem’s website;
None of the content may be altered or modified;
Users must comply with all other terms or restrictions which may be applicable to the individual file, image or text

Obviously, better than Fair Use permission is preferred, I will see what I can find, but it is no reason for a blanket copyvio label. --Goodoldpolonius2 16:44, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Thanks, I was not aware of that other page. Hopefully the image can be included under "fair use" then. Let's resolve this, as an article featured on the Main Page should have all the copyright issues with its images resolved. Balcer 16:48, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

I am pretty sure this falls under Polish Public Domain for works before 1994. The picture is also given (also without specific copyright) by the Simon Wiesthal Center [1]. Since these places do their homework on copyright, when available, the fact that both do not cite specific rightsholders is telling. What do you think? --Goodoldpolonius2 18:03, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Interestingly enough, the Wiesenthal Center gives the photo caption as "Jewish survivors leave Poland after the Kielce pogrom". It does not state that the picture specifically shows survivors of the Kielce pogrom. This is an important point, as from my reading only adults were in the house on Planty street that was attacked by the mob. So there could have been no child survivors, because there were no children. If I am wrong on this, I would appreciate a correction.

As for copyright, I would not be so quick to assume this is Polish Public Domain. What if the photo was taken by a news reporter from a Western news agency? Anyway, the fact remains that the photo was directly downloaded from the Yad Vashem website (the files are indentical) and they do place restrictions on how their materials are used, so we should respect that. Ideally, we should obtain permission before we use that graphics file on Wikipedia. Balcer 18:42, 17 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Solution: correct the caption to what Balcer states, contact YV and ask them for permission to use. --Piotr Konieczny aka Prokonsul Piotrus ^Talk 05:26, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]

Works for me. At least it should be clearly fair use under the YV terms, in any case. --Goodoldpolonius2 05:45, 19 October 2005 (UTC)[reply]